Would you take Ivermectin for Covid?

Would you take Ivermectin for Covid?

  • Yes - I have

    Votes: 15 4.5%
  • Yes - I would

    Votes: 99 29.6%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 61 18.3%
  • No

    Votes: 150 44.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 9 2.7%

  • Total voters
    334

quovadis

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SAHPRA is totally responsible for creating this black market. They need to find themselves under investigation by the competition commission.
I disagree. It's being fueled by those who desperately want to believe what they want to believe.
 

Geoff.D

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Ivermectin that is available in SA is 'safe for human use' - Medical Brief

Another Doctor has come out and stated publically that compounds used in SA for animals are safe for use by humans.
I disagree. It's being fueled by those who desperately want to believe what they want to believe.
Well, your disagreement is noted. All moot now because SAHPRA has made an arrangement that will allow doctors to prescribe Ivermectin compounds specifically compounded for human use.
And for them to save face, while they ruminate and pontificate about the technical details.
 

quovadis

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Ivermectin that is available in SA is 'safe for human use' - Medical Brief

Another Doctor has come out and stated publically that compounds used in SA for animals are safe for use by humans.

Well, your disagreement is noted. All moot now because SAHPRA has made an arrangement that will allow doctors to prescribe Ivermectin compounds specifically compounded for human use.
And for them to save face, while they ruminate and pontificate about the technical details.
Compounded for human use eh? I think the word you're looking for is formulated. I wonder at what stage you'll realise what "compassionate" access means? I'm pretty sure it relates to severely ill patients, those who are admitted and it's basically a hail mary. Lastly, perhaps they're waiting for actual reviewed data. Ya know, to do what they're mandated to do with a sprinkling of science and fact as the basis.
 

JohnStarr

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Your understanding of the scheduling of drugs is flawed. The reason why Ivermectin has not been made available for human consumption is because there are alternative, safer drugs with better efficacy for the treatment of parasitic infections. I think I've stated enough times now that there is no clinically scientific and reviewed data to support ivermectin's effectiveness against covid and the hype and frenzy around it is ridiculous until there is such evidence. What I do know is that this is not the first "cure" and it won't be the last.
Everything he says around drugs is flawed and based off personal opinion and readings. Which would be fine if he understood how they all work, and the mechanisms behind getting the drugs to market, approved, or even formulated...which he doesn't.
 

JohnStarr

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SAHPRA is totally responsible for creating this black market. They need to find themselves under investigation by the competition commission.
Geoffy, you and your mate/s here who have pushed this as the miracle drug, and pretty much said some slanderous things against an organisation who's responsibility is on a subject you know nothing about, are key to possibly pushing the prices of this drug up.
If some comments on this forum are to be believed, it has skyrocketed. Which has a massive impact on farmers who need it for their stock.
Hope you're happy now...this is what being an overzealous armchair doctor creates. People are desperate, and people like you feed into that.
 

Geoff.D

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Compounded for human use eh? I think the word you're looking for is formulated. I wonder at what stage you'll realise what "compassionate" access means? I'm pretty sure it relates to severely ill patients, those who are admitted and it's basically a hail mary. Lastly, perhaps they're waiting for actual reviewed data. Ya know, to do what they're mandated to do with a sprinkling of science and fact as the basis.
Maybe you should read up on how medicines are made and what the word compounded means?
A part of the process requires formulation, BUT that strictly applies to the process that created Ivermectin! Ivermectin exists. The step required is to compound it into a form suitable for human use.
Go and read up the Pharmacy Act.

And how about this for a small little fact about the efficiency of SAHPRA round about 2016?

The median approval times for fast track applications approved by the MCC in 2015, 2016, and 2017 were 1218, 921, and 609 calendar days, respectively

There was no target time set for the overall review time of NCEs and the median approval times for NCE marketing authorization applications approved in 2015, 2016, and 2017 were 1161, 1678, and 1422 calendar days, respectively
The "fast track target for approval is apparently 250 days

Now consider how this will apply in an epidemic where a patient could come get sick and die within in a week of admission.
All the "compassionate" term means is the dodge behind which SAHPRA is trying to hide, thta is all.
But we will have to wait to see what their new process is going to look like when they release it.

The sure as hell cant us the definition of "fast track" because that already talks about 250 days as a target.

 
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Geoff.D

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Compounded for human use eh? I think the word you're looking for is formulated. I wonder at what stage you'll realise what "compassionate" access means? I'm pretty sure it relates to severely ill patients, those who are admitted and it's basically a hail mary. Lastly, perhaps they're waiting for actual reviewed data. Ya know, to do what they're mandated to do with a sprinkling of science and fact as the basis.
And here is a news piece on What Dr Hellen Rees said they mean by "compassionate use" -- certainly not the tripe you think it means.

Ivermectin: Why Sahpra is granting ’controlled compassionate use’ for Covid-19 treatment (iol.co.za)
 

quovadis

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And here is a news piece on What Dr Hellen Rees said they mean by "compassionate use" -- certainly not the tripe you think it means.

Ivermectin: Why Sahpra is granting ’controlled compassionate use’ for Covid-19 treatment (iol.co.za)
Ok so you have your definition and the rest of the world has another. Compassionate use is usually referred to as the allowance for the administration of a drug to a patient prior to the conclusion of a clinical trial without participating in said trial and it is very much reserved for those who are severely afflicted and a last resort. I prefer a world of fact as opposed to your interpretations, thanks.
 

quovadis

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Maybe you should read up on how medicines are made and what the word compounded means?
A part of the process requires formulation, BUT that strictly applies to the process that created Ivermectin! Ivermectin exists. The step required is to compound it into a form suitable for human use.
Go and read up the Pharmacy Act.

And how about this for a small little fact about the efficiency of SAHPRA round about 2016?




The "fast track target for approval is apparently 250 days

Now consider how this will apply in an epidemic where a patient could come get sick and die within in a week of admission.
All the "compassionate" term means is the dodge behind which SAHPRA is trying to hide, thta is all.
But we will have to wait to see what their new process is going to look like when they release it.

The sure as hell cant us the definition of "fast track" because that already talks about 250 days as a target.
Wow quite the tangent there. No, it’s not compounding. We live in a world of fact not opinion.

 

JohnStarr

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Not at a tangent at all. Pity you are determined to be obstructionist and not wanting to bother to read the Acts that apply to South Africa.

But the answer is you have just earned yourself a noddy badge.
You're not a pro, not in the medical field, and simply read whilst professing you know it all. Your noddy badge was earned long time back. You've proven yourself to be single-minded and closed off to anyone else's opinion. With your back to the wall with so many people lining up to logically prove you wrong, you're reaching...pitiful really.

Reading a bit of the "Idiot's Guide to How Medicines are Made" does not ensure you actually know how it's done...
 

The Trutherizer

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quovadis

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I’m curious to know if the desperation to punt an obscure drug is due to peoples distrust of vaccines due to misinformation and desperation to try find an alternative or simply a way to reduce demand so that first world countries can receive all the supply they need even at a premium price. The US is certainly now procuring all that it can and is very impressively scaling vaccinations to their own population. It’s more optimal after all to sell as many doses at as high a price for as long as possible.
 

Geoff.D

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I’m curious to know if the desperation to punt an obscure drug is due to peoples distrust of vaccines due to misinformation and desperation to try find an alternative or simply a way to reduce demand so that first world countries can receive all the supply they need even at a premium price. The US is certainly now procuring all that it can and is very impressively scaling vaccinations to their own population. It’s more optimal after all to sell as many doses at as high a price for as long as possible.
The US apparently (Biden) announced the US has purchased another 200 million doses of vaccine today. Making the total purchased by the US to 600 million doses enough for 300 million people.

52% of people do not want to get vaccinated, many have already been advised NOT to get a vaccination (my mom for example) based on deaths of elderly given the vaccines, people with a known adverse reaction to vaccines etc.

It is about regardless of anything to do with vaccines, many people are getting sick and will get sick before the vaccine is available to all in SA. And, even then people will still get sick. It is all about treating people to ensure they have a better chance of not dying, and a side benefit will be IF Ivermectin reduces the chance of people getting sick in the first place.

At the moment it is Plan A for treatment in conjunction with or even as a replacement for the existing treatment protocols, possible plan B for prevention while the vaccines are rolled out.

Most South Africans have lost just about all trust in our authorities.
Besides the current plan is to vaccinate 3.7 million people in the next 9 months. Out of 40 million. What about the rest?
All based on a herd immunity theory the experts all hope will be achieved? Something a few weeks ago not even the head of the MAC believed in?
 
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quovadis

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52% of people do not want to get vaccinated, many have already been advised NOT to get a vaccination (my mom for example) based on deaths of elderly given the vaccines, people with a known adverse reaction to vaccines etc.
Lol that was an online survey of 4000 people with ludicrous reasons for not wanting to participate including fear of needles.

Please provide citation for elderly deaths related to the covid vaccines and adverse reactions?
 

JohnStarr

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Lol that was an online survey of 4000 people with ludicrous reasons for not wanting to participate including fear of needles.

Please provide citation for elderly deaths related to the covid vaccines and adverse reactions?

I have a fear of needles, but we're not getting the vaccine in the first round even if we could. Simply down to waiting it out and waiting or more information.
But it's awesome when some online survey is treated as an expert opinion :)
 

Geoff.D

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You both are like stuck records.
Expert opinion stands no chance against public perceptions.
We as a family have already consulted with our medical doctors.
My mom 99 years old has been advised NOT to get it. So have both my wife and I due to our previous reaction to flu vaccines.
An alternative MUST be available and found damn soon.
Yesterday and last night there were presentations on the vaccines etc. Including one dealing with the negative perceptions in the population against vaccines. It is a huge problem.
Many church leaders and prominent figures are actively running around spreading stuff. So are so called elected political figures.
All the logic is going to do nothing!
The govt has already stated that forcing people to vaccinate will NOT happen.
The process for health workers allows for them NOT to register to receive it. So, in theory, we will quite soon know how many of them don't want it. Now tell me why would health workers resist this? They in theory have access to all the knowledge? The answer is influences outside of the health environment.
 

JohnStarr

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You both are like stuck records.
Expert opinion stands no chance against public perceptions.
We as a family have already consulted with our medical doctors.
My mom 99 years old has been advised NOT to get it. So have both my wife and I due to our previous reaction to flu vaccines.
An alternative MUST be available and found damn soon.
Yesterday and last night there were presentations on the vaccines etc. Including one dealing with the negative perceptions in the population against vaccines. It is a huge problem.
Many church leaders and prominent figures are actively running around spreading stuff. So are so called elected political figures.
All the logic is going to do nothing!
The govt has already stated that forcing people to vaccinate will NOT happen.
The process for health workers allows for them NOT to register to receive it. So, in theory, we will quite soon know how many of them don't want it. Now tell me why would health workers resist this? They in theory have access to all the knowledge? The answer is influences outside of the health environment.
Nobody is denying Ivermectin might actually work, and looks to be viable...once the tests prove it. That's the part you seem unable to comprehend. Rushing into a medicine just because a few experts (and I mean a few...you'll find there are a lot of professionals who would rather wait for test results which means they know and understand processes and medication more than you) say it might work isn't the way.
Well, not for a lot of people...you maybe, but that's fine and you can do what you want as an adult.

But you're also like a stuck record and quite painful.
 
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