You can now reverse unauthorised debit orders online in SA

Mars

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I have already been able to do reverse debit orders via my FNB online portal since last year. I did it when Cell C continued to debit me after my contract (and the debit order) was cancelled.

How is this different? Am I missing something?
 

JustAsk

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UNAUTHORISED
You don't seemed to know what it means. It only means "card not present".

As for ABSA, this is just a pr stunt as we are moving to AEDO anyway. "Unauthorised" debit orders are not what you need to be beware of...be afraid for authorised debt order or AEDO. NAEDO still can be disputed but AEDO can't as it means "card present". That means, with just a swipe of your card, and your pin, you can now setup a foolproof debit order, it is scary.

So for the advantage of a so called safer option, you just trade in any chance for disputes.
 

eehellfire

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You don't seemed to know what it means. It only means "card not present".

As for ABSA, this is just a pr stunt as we are moving to AEDO anyway. "Unauthorised" debit orders are not what you need to be beware of...be afraid for authorised debt order or AEDO. NAEDO still can be disputed but AEDO can't as it means "card present". That means, with just a swipe of your card, and your pin, you can now setup a foolproof debit order, it is scary.

So for the advantage of a so called safer option, you just trade in any chance for disputes.
You don't seem to know what it means.
Card not Present has nothing to do with debit order authorisation.
Debit order mandates are written or voice recorded (only recently card authenticated).

Unauthorised debit orders are those without a mandate to deduct funds.
 

HideInLight

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Naido I believe if I remember correctly.
Some funeral place we never heard of us hit us with one a while a go. The bank had the nerf to charge us to fix it even though they admitted the funeral place was committing fraud.

It's a system that's suppose to be used by debt collectors, but it's being abused.
 

supersunbird

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eehellfires knows what he is talking about, and JustAsk is off on a tangent that has no bearing on this...
 

biometrics

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I have already been able to do reverse debit orders via my FNB online portal since last year. I did it when Cell C continued to debit me after my contract (and the debit order) was cancelled.

How is this different? Am I missing something?
Didn't know this. Where is this option?
 

JustAsk

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You don't seem to know what it means.
Card not Present has nothing to do with debit order authorisation.
Debit order mandates are written or voice recorded (only recently card authenticated).

Unauthorised debit orders are those without a mandate to deduct funds.
Sigh...

NAEDO - Non-authenticated - Card not present - can be disputed in 40 days
AEDO - aUTHENTICATED - Card present - no disputes except fraud (proved)

Authorise - give permission
Authenticate - act of giving authority

Don't get lost in semantics, certain words are used for a very specific reason.
 

eehellfire

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Sigh...

NAEDO - Non-authenticated - Card not present - can be disputed in 40 days
AEDO - aUTHENTICATED - Card present - no disputes except fraud (proved)

Authorise - give permission
Authenticate - act of giving authority

Don't get lost in semantics, certain words are used for a very specific reason.
Sigh...

Semantics are exactly what makes up the South African payments industry.

Unauthorised debit orders refer to those debit orders with no mandate. Generally fraudulent.

An unauthenticated (but authorised) debit order will have a recorded mandate (paper, voice or electronic) that can be produced by the requestor to prove authorisation if necessary. No check is done at processing time to verify authorisation.

An authenticated debit order will have an electronic mandate lodged with the payments clearing house (ie Bankserv) or the account holder's home bank against which the debit order will be verified before processing.

Authenticated Debit Orders will not only be authenticated by card.
 

CeeBee

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I have already been able to do reverse debit orders via my FNB online portal since last year. I did it when Cell C continued to debit me after my contract (and the debit order) was cancelled.

How is this different? Am I missing something?
I also thought its odd... I have been able to do just that with FNB some time ago too.
go to the FNB website, lookup offending debit order and cancel, reverse. (My accounts, menu, stop debit order)
 
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biometrics

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I also thought its odd... I have been able to do just that with FNB some time ago too.
go to the FNB website, lookup offending debit order and cancel, reverse.
Please say where on the FNB site, I'd like to know ... I can't find it.
 

CeeBee

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Please say where on the FNB site, I'd like to know ... I can't find it.
Had a quick look again now... on FNB website, under My Accounts, then menu, then on left, stop debit order.

hold on... I guess that's the difference... according to the article its "free" to stop/reverse debit order with Absa.
while FNB does offer it, of course its not free.... if the FNB consultants do it for you its R50, if you do it via online banking its R5.00 charge.
 

ponder

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There's an easy solution to this, the account holder has to authorise every single debit order loaded onto the system via whatever banking portal they use. Unfortunately this is not the case & the law does not support the consumer in this regard.

The amount of fraud happening is massive, the banks know about all these scammers but their hands are tied.
 

biometrics

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Had a quick look again now... on FNB website, under My Accounts, then menu, then on left, stop debit order.

hold on... I guess that's the difference... according to the article its "free" to stop/reverse debit order with Absa.
while FNB does offer it, of course its not free.... if the FNB consultants do it for you its R50, if you do it via online banking its R5.00 charge.
I'm starting to feel stupid here ... :eek:

So I select My Bank Accounts:

FNB 1.JPG

I open the Menu:

FNB 2.JPG

I select Stop Debit Order:

FNB 3.jpg

I end up at Stopped Debit Orders:

FNB 4.JPG

There is no option to reverse or stop a debit order.

:confused:

On my ABSA I can now reverse and stop a debit order.
 

JustAsk

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Sigh...

An unauthenticated (but authorised) debit order
You misunderstood the legal meaning of both. It is designed to trick you and it works.

When you give permission to a 3rd party for a debit order to deduct money hold at a 4th party, said debit order is now authorized (give permission). For that authorization to be valid, your bank needs to authenticate that order ( check by a proper party that a document is what it is purported to be and that the party attesting to it is qualified to do so).

Now, the bank don't double check any debit orders. All a company needs to do is upload a bulk spreadsheet with instructions or log into a website and electronically set instructions for any deductions on any bank on the NAEDO system...with just your bank account and details, amount and duration. Said amount can be changed too. THe bank don't ask for any proof.

Now, because the bank did NOT authenticate the order, THE LEGAL AUTHORIZATION OF THAT DEBIT ORDER BECOMES VOID. You signing to authorise is only an illusion. ALL debit orders going through NAEDO is unauthorised and therefor illegal. It has no legal binding status because it uses no legal procedure.

AEDO Means in legal terms is "card present", meaning by inputing your pin, you not only give consent for the debit order but also the proof of consent via pin. This orders are undisputable.

Authenticated Debit Orders will not only be authenticated by card.
Didn't say that...it can also be done by sending you a pin like "verified by visa" and there's a company that also use the double opt-in via email method.
 

Mars

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I'm starting to feel stupid here ... :eek:

So I select My Bank Accounts:

View attachment 312417

I open the Menu:

View attachment 312419

I select Stop Debit Order:

View attachment 312421

I end up at Stopped Debit Orders:

View attachment 312423

There is no option to reverse or stop a debit order.

:confused:

On my ABSA I can now reverse and stop a debit order.
Its been a long time since I used it, but iirc you choose "Stop Debit Order" and it should show you a list of your recent debit orders. Then you choose one to cancel and you have the option of reversing the last transaction also.


Edit: Just tested and it shows me a list of my debit orders. Dont want to cancel any of them for obvious reasons, so I cant test then next step :p
 

biometrics

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Its been a long time since I used it, but iirc you choose "Stop Debit Order" and it should show you a list of your recent debit orders. Then you choose one to cancel and you have the option of reversing the last transaction also.


Edit: Just tested and it shows me a list of my debit orders. Dont want to cancel any of them for obvious reasons, so I cant test then next step :p
Mine shows nothing.

Is that page also titled "View Stopped Debit Orders"?

Capture.jpg
 
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