You're not Christian you are Pagan

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#81
Actually scientific journals make a big thing about correcting false information. It is nothing like the tiny retractions in a normal magazine or newspaper.

If you claim that information provided is incorrect you naturally have to provide what you believe is the correct information and explain why.
Yes That is the problem scientitists now believe they are in a class of their own, they know everything and are now playing GOD. That is the problem with you also you try play GOD...
 

noxibox

Honorary Master
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17,039
#82
we are to blame for the current situation we are in with regards to women
OK, so God didn't make us that way or at least, because he isn't perfect, did not realise his design was defective? You can't have your perfect, all-knowing god then claim he did not know where things would go and is not responsible for what he created.

You're trying to blame humans for God's mistakes. We are exactly what this god created.
 
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Kalvaer

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#83
@ Noxi ...Back to the same old point again I see... What ever.. guess this topic is dead.. sorry all
 
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Kalvaer

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#84
Yes That is the problem scientitists now believe they are in a class of their own, they know everything and are now playing GOD. That is the problem with you also you try play GOD...
Not all Scientists are like that though DD... My Wife sure isn't and I know many more but again.. I think we have lost the plot in this thread completely :)
 
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#85
Then don't bring up nonsense about how the product is to blame for design defects deliberately created by the designer.


God
made
us
to
sin

He's and his followers are just not very good at admitting that he either screwed up or did this deliberately. Maybe it's some experiment or just a game because he was bored.
Keep on believing your own lie we are not stupid enough to do that we are not the off-spring of apes... you are actually proving something very interesting to us now...
 
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#86
Not all Scientists are like that though DD... My Wife sure isn't and I know many more but again.. I think we have lost the plot in this thread completely :)
I agree with you KALVEAR, but in the context of the folks we are dealing with in this threads...well they tell me all christians are murders and hypocrites if you read the threads carefully which is untrue...
 

nthdimension

Senior Member
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#87
Manual labour is arguably worse than being confined to working in the home, but things go further than that for women. They typically had a lower status than male children - they were the servants of their husbands/fathers/brothers, they were kept uneducated, they were kept out of most physical activities, they were barred from almost any kind of work other than being a toy and servant in the home, they could be beaten, and their husbands could even rape them. As far as I am aware there are still US states where you can legally rape your wife as long as you do not physically injure her while doing so. It was Christian religious organisations that loudly opposed making rape within marriage a crime.

There's no point throwing a tantrum because you've been called on your attempt to blame humans for your deity's mistakes. As I recall it is claimed to not only know the future, but to have a detailed plan for the world. Would you have us believe that when Adam ate the apple God said to himself, "Hey, I didn't see that coming."?

This thread is on a tangent to the heading anyway so stop whining.
 

Claymore

Executive Member
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#88
As far as I am aware there are still US states where you can legally rape your wife as long as you do not physically injure her while doing so.
A friend of mine in the US was repeatedly drugged and raped by her husband, and that wile undergoing cancer treatment. When she discovered what was going on, she tried to have him charged, and discovered that in her state he could not be convicted of rape.
 
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#89
So are you saying 3:16 is valid, or is not valid? Either they have equal consequences, or they do not. Which is it?
Equal consequences for equal actions. Eve not only succumbed to temptation but lured her husband into temptation. Her husband would trust her of course so he succumbs to temptation. Because she would abuse here power she would lose it and instead become subservant to her husband. A clear point of someone taking ONE verse out of context to try and prove their point. However it's irrelevant because Christianity changed all that through grace superceding the law.
Then don't bring up nonsense about how the product is to blame for design defects deliberately created by the designer.


God
made
us
to
sin

He and his followers are just not very good at admitting that he either screwed up or did this deliberately. Maybe it's some experiment or just a game because he was bored.

Basically what it comes down to is God always intended men and women to be unequal.
Will you tell us when you're done beating that strawman into nonexistence? :rolleyes: God created mankind not to sin but to also choose between good and bad. Man chose to use that ability for evil but has shown through Jesus Christ that he can also use it for good. Don't try to blame God for your inner desire to be evil.
As I recall it is claimed to not only know the future, but to have a detailed plan for the world.
His plan is to one day reunite mankind with Himself. It is people like you who unsuccessfully try to subvert this plan for your own evil desires.
 

Claymore

Executive Member
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#90
Equal consequences for equal actions. Eve not only succumbed to temptation but lured her husband into temptation. Her husband would trust her of course so he succumbs to temptation. Because she would abuse here power she would lose it and instead become subservant to her husband. A clear point of someone taking ONE verse out of context to try and prove their point. However it's irrelevant because Christianity changed all that through grace superceding the law.
OK, so you're saying that under Christianity, women and men are treated equally?
 

Kalvaer

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#91
OK, so you're saying that under Christianity, women and men are treated equally?
Truthfully.. No. But I Believe it was Gods plan through Jesus that we should be.

God punished, both men and women for their crime. It was us again as humans (and mostly men) who have used that to their advantage. I know there is even the argument that this could be why there are no female priests in the "Catholic Church" since they can not be trusted. I however think its a load of bull and I have read somewhere that 8 out of 10 priests believe the same thing (how true it is I can not say but have put it here for interests sake none the less)

It is us who have decided how to live our lifes and what to make of them, God gave us Freewill to live how we wanted and to make up our own minds, instead being mindlessly controlled.

Which btw Nth is why I got upset with the stupid argument about if God knows everything why didn't he stop Adam and Eve. Mainly because I see so many use it as an arguement when they have nothing to say. I wasn't throwing a tantrum, but just couldn't believe the logical train of thought. Its like that of a two year old who wont let somebody play with thier toys.

However, If God stopped Eve, would that not go against the idea of freewill we were given. Do you punish your children knowing full well that they are going to eat those cookies you made for your husband (or wife or whatever) When you told them not too when you went to the shops or do you wait until you have got back. If you did it before you would have taught them nothing at all and they would of denied it. leaving you with the question.. "what if I was wrong"?

Maybe it was an experiment, and experiment in Human judgement a test of our faith... We failed and were punished for it.. same as your kids would be for eating those cookies. Point remains its not Gods fault for the in-equality but our own.
 
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nthdimension

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#92
Will you tell us when you're done beating that strawman into nonexistence
There is no strawman, only the fatal problems with your religion's claims about its god. You claim great things and abilities for this god, but hold it to very low standards.
 

nthdimension

Senior Member
Joined
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Messages
763
#93
the stupid argument about if God knows everything why didn't he stop Adam and Eve. Mainly because I see so many use it as an arguement when they have nothing to say. I wasn't throwing a tantrum, but just couldn't believe the logical train of thought. Its like that of a two year old who wont let somebody play with thier toys.
No it isn't. Is it so hard to grasp that a god that knows the future and made humans knew exactly what was going to happen? It is entirely correct and reasonable to state that this god created humans intending events to play out as they did. The events in Eden were just a show, a way for God to make it someone else's fault. Now that's childish. Not surprising considering that in the Bible there are times when God acts just like a small child throwing its toys.

The alternative is that God cannot predict the future and did not know how the creatures he had made would behave out in the field. He is fallible.

Do you punish your children knowing full well that they are going to eat those cookies you made for your husband (or wife or whatever) When you told them not too when you went to the shops or do you wait until you have got back.
I did not make my children. Nor do I know the future. It is not a valid analogy.

Maybe it was an experiment, and experiment in Human judgement a test of our faith... We failed and were punished for it.. same as your kids would be for eating those cookies. Point remains its not Gods fault for the in-equality but our own.
You still want to claim that God did not see this coming? That he did not know in advance exactly what would transpire? What happened to knowing the future? A god that knows everything knows the outcome of all possible experiments without performing them.
 
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#94
No it isn't. Is it so hard to grasp that a god that knows the future and made humans knew exactly what was going to happen? It is entirely correct and reasonable to state that this god created humans intending events to play out as they did. The events in Eden were just a show, a way for God to make it someone else's fault. Now that's childish. Not surprising considering that in the Bible there are times when God acts just like a small child throwing its toys.

The alternative is that God cannot predict the future and did not know how the creatures he had made would behave out in the field. He is fallible.


I did not make my children. Nor do I know the future. It is not a valid analogy.


You still want to claim that God did not see this coming? That he did not know in advance exactly what would transpire? What happened to knowing the future? A god that knows everything knows the outcome of all possible experiments without performing them.
God gave you a little bit of responsibility and you can't cope with it...
Take up your responsibility and stop blaming someone else because you can not handle it...
 
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#95
Strawman arguments?

What stupid way do you argue NTDIMENSION, your mom and dad put you in your flesh, go to them, ask them why did you do this to me? You fall out of your mom's womb
blame them silly-billy that's where it started...
 
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Messages
4,252
#96
There is no strawman, only the fatal problems with your religion's claims about its god. You claim great things and abilities for this god, but hold it to very low standards.
LOL. You continually make the same argument that gets refuted all the time. That is a strawman.
No it isn't. Is it so hard to grasp that a god that knows the future and made humans knew exactly what was going to happen? It is entirely correct and reasonable to state that this god created humans intending events to play out as they did. The events in Eden were just a show, a way for God to make it someone else's fault. Now that's childish. Not surprising considering that in the Bible there are times when God acts just like a small child throwing its toys.
Whether He knew in advance or not is irrelevant. He gave mankind a choice for the sake of those who overcome so they would not be mindless drones but could choose for themselves. You are clinging to a strawman. You want a reason not to be accountable for YOUR actions. YOU are acting like a spoilt brat.
 

nthdimension

Senior Member
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#97
I don't expect an answer. A lot of dodging and squirming goes on to avoid answering the problem.

The argument has never been successfully refuted. The argument is not fallacious.

At least philosophers have the decency to grapple with the problem.
 

Kalvaer

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#98
I did not make my children. Nor do I know the future.
EEEEKKKK.... Wait.. if you do in fact have Children.. I hope you did in fact make them or at least have a MAJOR part in it (unless they are Test Tube kids but you still had to supply the material, or of course adopted).. Otherwise I'd presonally doubt my spouse and be kicking my neighbours door in right now

(and I am Joking of course)
 
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