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Thread: Introduction to Islam

  1. #751

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    Quote Originally Posted by grantza View Post
    maybe i can help you.
    the shoe itself is not the insult, it is the sole of the shoe that is dirty.
    god forgave her as she saved the life of the dog, one of his creations.
    According to the passage, the dog was thirsty, not on deaths door? And it's the sole of the shoe? Ok. Much like the the dog is pure filth, but water is the vector?

    But, to go back to what you are saying, giving a thirsty dog water from your shoe is the path to salvation then? Sort of like how the catholics say professing your sins is the path to salvation?
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarog View Post
    Well, ya, I don't think any human being has any knowledge of god.

  2. #752

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    Quote Originally Posted by signates View Post
    Wayfarer please answer the last question as apparently your opinion on this matter speaks to the opinion of every Muslim. For Splinter's sake, and my sanity, please don't quote any references. A simple yes or no in your opinion would suffice. I know it is not as clear cut as that.

    I challenge any Muslim come to my house and say its filthy. We had a family function once where there was not enough place in the house to make Salah and we made Salah outside on the lawn where the dogs run around everyday without anyone having an issue with it. The dogs were not tied up and running around the garden while we were praying.

    Show me a Muslim that hates dogs because of Islam and I'll show you a Muslim who is ignorant of his religion.
    This is Wayfarers thread; and an introduction into Islam as per his own words. I am NOT saying your house is filthy. I believe the opposite - dogs are faithful and loyal companions that will protect your house and will be your friend until the day they die. But Wayfarer himself has said that dogs are filth, according to Islam.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarog View Post
    Well, ya, I don't think any human being has any knowledge of god.

  3. #753
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splinter View Post
    Actually, on this I think you need to read up. Throwing a shoe is a bad, bad insult.

    Actually, being offended by anything is a state of mind. I cannot read someone's mind to determine what their intent is when they do something. If someone throws a shoe at me and their intent is to offend or insult me by this action, why should I feel offended or insulted if I do not view a shoe in the same way as they do.

    I remember getting spanked with a shoe a few times when I was younger and doubt my mom was using the shoe because she wanted to insult me.

    I think this thread has been derailed far enough so will only respond in the redirected thread.

  4. #754

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    Lol, I gave enough info to demonstrate that the mere presence of a dog is not enough to denote that that which it comes into contact with is contaminated with impurity. A house does not become impure because of the presence of a dog.

    However, under normal conditions, scholars strongly caution against having a dog live inside the home, because of the potential for household items (including food items and prayer mats) becoming impure.

    Guide dogs (and dogs serving similar purposes), if needed within the house, would be notable exceptions. Another interesting scenario mentioned was that of safeguarding domestic animals over the Guy Fawkes period.

    This particular topic has really been exhausted now. Please direct any further discussion on dogs to the "Redirected" thread.

  5. #755
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splinter View Post
    But, to go back to what you are saying, giving a thirsty dog water from your shoe is the path to salvation then? Sort of like how the catholics say professing your sins is the path to salvation?
    The path to salvation is not limited to any one thing in Islam. God as the most merciful can forgive the biggest sinner for the smallest act of kindness. That in essence is the deeper understanding of the story.

    Dogs are mentioned only twice on the Quran. The one of the travellers and their dog where they slept in the cave with dog protecting the entrance and the other regarding eating hunted animals that were retrieved by dogs and the meat still being halal.

    All other reference to dogs are from hadith, some more authentic and accurate than others.

  6. #756

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    What about a Thylacine in the house?

  7. #757

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    Quote Originally Posted by signates View Post
    Actually, being offended by anything is a state of mind. I cannot read someone's mind to determine what their intent is when they do something. If someone throws a shoe at me and their intent is to offend or insult me by this action, why should I feel offended or insulted if I do not view a shoe in the same way as they do.

    I remember getting spanked with a shoe a few times when I was younger and doubt my mom was using the shoe because she wanted to insult me.

    I think this thread has been derailed far enough so will only respond in the redirected thread.
    Why does it need to be redirected? If I recall correctly, there was a shoe thrown at an some american government official. It was meant to be some grave insult. Yes or no?
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarog View Post
    Well, ya, I don't think any human being has any knowledge of god.

  8. #758

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    Quote Originally Posted by wayfarer View Post
    Lol, I gave enough info to demonstrate that the mere presence of a dog is not enough to denote that that which it comes into contact with is contaminated with impurity. A house does not become impure because of the presence of a dog.

    However, under normal conditions, scholars strongly caution against having a dog live inside the home, because of the potential for household items (including food items and prayer mats) becoming impure.
    With all due respect, you are contradicting yourself. And that is even before we discuss the fact that you consider dogs "filth".
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarog View Post
    Well, ya, I don't think any human being has any knowledge of god.

  9. #759

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    Quote Originally Posted by Splinter View Post
    Why does it need to be redirected? If I recall correctly, there was a shoe thrown at an some american government official. It was meant to be some grave insult. Yes or no?
    Lol
    “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

    - Benjamin Franklin

  10. #760

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    Quote Originally Posted by signates View Post
    The path to salvation is not limited to any one thing in Islam. God as the most merciful can forgive the biggest sinner for the smallest act of kindness. That in essence is the deeper understanding of the story.

    Dogs are mentioned only twice on the Quran. The one of the travellers and their dog where they slept in the cave with dog protecting the entrance and the other regarding eating hunted animals that were retrieved by dogs and the meat still being halal.

    All other reference to dogs are from hadith, some more authentic and accurate than others.
    Absolutely. But, according to what you are saying, and believing, one way to get to get to this salvation is to give water to a thirsty dog from your shoe. if you disagree you will be going against the quran.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarog View Post
    Well, ya, I don't think any human being has any knowledge of god.

  11. #761

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    Quote Originally Posted by imranpanji View Post
    Lol
    You do realise that your sig quote is from an American? As in Benjamin Franklin?
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarog View Post
    Well, ya, I don't think any human being has any knowledge of god.

  12. #762

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    Quote Originally Posted by Splinter View Post
    You do realise that your sig quote is from an American? As in Benjamin Franklin?
    Yes. So what? My previous SIG was from Voltaire. Do you know of him? I pick my quotes based on the message they impart and not necessarily the person imparting them. And I like Benjamin Franklin....he made a net positive contribution to the world....if we all manage to do that during our lifetimes, we should die happy knowing that there is a possibility that the world might become a better place.

    I was laughing at you referring to the then president of the USA as 'some american government official'

    Edited
    Last edited by Hamish McPanji; 06-12-2014 at 12:01 AM.
    “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

    - Benjamin Franklin

  13. #763
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splinter View Post
    Why does it need to be redirected? If I recall correctly, there was a shoe thrown at an some american government official. It was meant to be some grave insult. Yes or no?

    I remember the story but again it comes down to intent of the person committing the act. He could just have wanted to provoke the speaker and the only tool he had available was his shoe. Maybe he was just unhappy at what was being discussed. It could also be a cultural association where the act of throwing a shoe = an insult and not an Islamic one.

    If an insult is thrown at me, verbal or otherwise, why should I feel insulted if that association to an insult is not present in my mind.

    Every action does not always have a hidden association and if it did, not every person affected by that action would share the same association to that action.

    Is there some hidden insult in the poo protests in CT from a few months ago or did the protesters simply use what was available to them to get their point across in the strongest terms possible for them?

    The first thing that would cross my mind if someone throws a shoe at me is that they are attacking me and not that they are insulting me. I either retreat to safety or retaliate depending on the situation. I'm not going to sit and decipher it to some deeper meaning that is so obscure.

  14. #764
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    Anyone else think LightScribe is using a bot to post on that account?
    Quote Originally Posted by JustAsk View Post
    gEEZUZ, is it an "IN" thing to be so incredibly ignorant?

  15. #765
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splinter View Post
    Umm - Wayfarer's exact statement was that dogs ARE filth; it just needs water as a "vector" to translate that filth onto you.

    And Wayfarer did not answer my question directly (the usual side-step by quoting an obscure verse).

    So, lets put it to the test.

    @Wayfarer - if Muslims have a dog in their house, would you consider it to be filthy, or a place of filth?
    Quote Originally Posted by Splinter View Post
    This is Wayfarers thread; and an introduction into Islam as per his own words. I am NOT saying your house is filthy. I believe the opposite - dogs are faithful and loyal companions that will protect your house and will be your friend until the day they die. But Wayfarer himself has said that dogs are filth, according to Islam.
    He didn't say a dog if filthy yes he used the word filth in regard the contact with their saliva and or water transferring it said filth. You are judging his use of the word filthy to automatically brand Muslim dog owners as them selves as filthy?
    Basically id prefer using the words clean and unclean every thing can be brought down to those words, you cant perform salah in an unclean state. a dogs saliva is unclean so if a dog licks your hand or clothes yet washing your hand and clothes brings it to a clean state. the same as me going to the toilet i am unclean and need to wash up to clean up. same with cleaning babies poo and a bunch of other stuff. So its pretty easy to cleanse the home if you have a dog and choose to do the extra work as it were, some Muslims do and others don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by wayfarer View Post
    There is no prohibition on keeping dogs as pets. The issue with dogs is that contact with a dog is regarded as a transfer of filth if there is moisture involved. Contact with the dry fur of a dog is fine; but if the fur (or your hand) is wet, (or the dog licks you) filth has been transfered, and requires cleansing. For this reason, some Muslims avoid keeping dogs as pets.

    However, blind Muslims sometimes keep dogs as guide-dogs, and some Muslims may keep watch dogs. There still exists the concept of a sheep dog as well. None of this is prohibited.
    Quote Originally Posted by Splinter View Post
    So, based on the bolded part above, a prostitute (one of the lowest things in Islam perhaps?) gave water, in her shoe, to a dog. Now, s far as I know - throwing a shoe at someone is a grave insult. So using it as a vessel for water means what exactly?

    But the more pertinent thing is - why did god have to "forgive" her for giving a dog water?
    where do you get your interpretations of insults? SOB and throwing shoes - man you really crack me up.
    god forgave her for showing pity on an animal. the parable basically teaches a few things don't judge any one as that's for Allah to do as in he knows what in their heart and doing any deed even if it might seem insignificant may have more significance in the eyes of Allah, also be kind to animals :


    Those who are kind and considerate to Allah's creatures, Allah bestows His kindness and affection on them. Show kindness to the creatures on the earth so that Allah may be kind to you." Hadith - Abu Dawud and Tirmidhi
    Quote Originally Posted by Splinter View Post
    Why does it need to be redirected? If I recall correctly, there was a shoe thrown at an some american government official. It was meant to be some grave insult. Yes or no?
    Man really you giving me some gigles today
    You mean old POTUS , GW
    the shoe was an item of convenience for IIRC the iraqi journalist. It was meant to hit him in the face and not as an insult . Im sure we all have that government official you want to throw some thing at, this guys was GW and his shoe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Splinter View Post
    Absolutely. But, according to what you are saying, and believing, one way to get to get to this salvation is to give water to a thirsty dog from your shoe. if you disagree you will be going against the quran.
    as i mentioned previously its not the specific action that's salvation but the act of kindness to creation. Care and kindness for fellow man and beast. Its just one way of getting your good deed count up
    Some times the internet is so slow, it would be faster to just fly to Google's headquarters and ask them this $h1t in person.!

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