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Thread: Introduction to Islam

  1. #421

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    Quote Originally Posted by OrbitalDawn View Post
    I'm not talking about the legal system. I'm talking about doctrinal requirements...
    Quote Originally Posted by porchrat View Post
    Neither are crosses but you saw fit to mention those. Just pointing out that you are comparing apples with oranges here...
    These aspects of the scholar's quote are peripheral to the actual topic of the post (regarding the 5 lives of the human being). Kindly refer to the tossed thread.

  2. #422
    Garfield's Teddy Pooky's Avatar
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    Dunno if this is the right place but wayfarer seems pretty clued up on Islam so I thought I would ask here.

    What is Islam's stance on pornography?

    According to what I looked up it is Haram, but is it strictly forbidden. I know a lot of these things have relaxed stances for instance smoking, etc or people may just interpret it to suit themselves.

    Here are the relevant Quran verses (?) that I found:

    Tell the believing men to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts. That is purer for them. Indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what they do.

    And tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts and not expose their adornment except that which [necessarily] appears thereof and to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers over their chests and not expose their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, their brothers' sons, their sisters' sons, their women, that which their right hands possess, or those male attendants having no physical desire, or children who are not yet aware of the private aspects of women. And let them not stamp their feet to make known what they conceal of their adornment. And turn to Allah in repentance, all of you, O believers, that you might succeed.
    Thanks

    EDIT: If it is Haram and forbidden, is is as serious an "offence" as eating Pork? There's a huge aversion to Pork within Islam but often one finds a lesser aversion to other Haram things, are there tiers of how Haram something is?
    Only one of these adds to your value as a human being: Consuming things other people have made or making your own.
    link

  3. #423
    Super Grandmaster zizo911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooky View Post
    Dunno if this is the right place but wayfarer seems pretty clued up on Islam so I thought I would ask here.

    What is Islam's stance on pornography?

    According to what I looked up it is Haram, but is it strictly forbidden. I know a lot of these things have relaxed stances for instance smoking, etc or people may just interpret it to suit themselves.

    Here are the relevant Quran verses (?) that I found:



    Thanks

    EDIT: If it is Haram and forbidden, is is as serious an "offence" as eating Pork? There's a huge aversion to Pork within Islam but often one finds a lesser aversion to other Haram things, are there tiers of how Haram something is?
    I think that if you relate it to masturbation, then it is the lesser of two evils, instead of going out and having intercourse. BUT it should be used as a last resort only...

  4. #424

    Default Islam on Pornography

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooky View Post
    Dunno if this is the right place but wayfarer seems pretty clued up on Islam so I thought I would ask here. What is Islam's stance on pornography? According to what I looked up it is Haram, but is it strictly forbidden.
    Tell the believing men to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts. That is purer for them. Indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what they do.

    And tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts and not expose their adornment except that which [necessarily] appears thereof and to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers over their chests and not expose their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, their brothers' sons, their sisters' sons, their women, that which their right hands possess, or those male attendants having no physical desire, or children who are not yet aware of the private aspects of women. And let them not stamp their feet to make known what they conceal of their adornment. And turn to Allah in repentance, all of you, O believers, that you might succeed.
    I know a lot of these things have relaxed stances for instance smoking, etc or people may just interpret it to suit themselves.
    Thank you for your question, Pooky.

    Categories of human behaviour

    According to Islam, all human behaviour falls into one of the following 5 categories:

    1. Obligatory (fast in Ramadan, pay the tax to poor, husband to maintain wife and children...)
      Its performance will be rewarded, and non-performance will be sinful.
    2. Recommended (give charity, fast certain days outside Ramadan, husband orgasm only after wife...)
      Such acts are rewarded, but non-performance not sinful.
    3. Permissible (eating a chocolate, wearing a pink shirt, playing BTD5...)
      Such acts are neither rewarded nor punished.
    4. Offensive (divorce during pregnancy, urinate whilst standing, having sex without foreplay...)
      Such acts are not sinful, but when avoided for the sake of God, they are rewarded.
    5. Prohibited (haram / strictly forbidden) (engage in sex outside marriage, murder, steal...)
      Performance of such acts is sinful, and when avoided for the sake of God, they are rewarded.


    Islam on viewing pornography

    The Quranic verses you quote are indeed relevant. Also consider the words of Prophet Muhammad:
    Jareer ibn Abdullah reported: “I asked the Messenger of God about an accidental glance at a woman. He commanded me to turn my gaze away.” (Hadith)
    Prophet Muhammad also said: "Do not follow an unintentional look at forbidden things with another look. The first glance is for you (pardonable) whereas the other glance is not for you (sinful)." (Hadith)

    Viewing pornography is classified as prohibited by the consensus of the scholars in Islam. The most obvious reasons are that:

    • It involves viewing the nakedness of others, and Islam is very clear on this prohibition.
    • It involves witnessing sexual intercourse by others, and this, too (even if the participants are covered) trangresses the Islamic requirements of modesty.

    Beyond the private sphere, pornography also has consequences for society. Therefore, other Islamic objections include that pornography:

    • Generally involves the objectification/dehumanisation of women.
    • Crimes such as rape/torture/humiliation are glamourised in simulations (and sadly, sometimes actual enactment - especially where the porn industry overlaps the human trafficking industry).
    • Generally depicts/promotes sex between unmarried individuals (illicit sex).
    • It is not unusual for pornography to be associated with that which Islam considers to be perversions, such as involving human wastes, anal sex, homosexual sex, sex with animals, etc.
    • Generally portrays sex as a purely self-gratifying, lustful act (as per the glorification of the individual, consistent with secular liberalism), rather than a pleasurable expression of intimacy and love between husband and wife (as per the Islamic paradigm).
    • Is a highly addictive activity (not unlike substance-dependence or gambling) and a serious problem in the Information Society, impacting on the addict's interpersonal relationships, ability for wholesome sexual expression and love, destroying marriages, etc.
      (see The Social Costs of Pornography)


    If it is Haram and forbidden, is is as serious an "offence" as eating Pork? There's a huge aversion to Pork within Islam but often one finds a lesser aversion to other Haram things, are there tiers of how Haram something is?
    Both pornography and consumption of pork are regarded as prohibited/haram/sinful and divinely punishable. The reason why there is a greater or lesser aversion to certain haram actions is often due to socialisation and acculturisation, rather than because of Islamic legal considerations. It is imperative that a Muslim refrains from all haram actions. However, gradation of sin is a reality, e.g. stealing a R5 is cetainly not equal to mass murder. Scholars have compiled a well-known list of "major sins", and the pornography industry (producers/actors/viewers) violates a great many of them.
    Last edited by wayfarer; 28-08-2014 at 01:27 PM.

  5. #425
    Garfield's Teddy Pooky's Avatar
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    Thanks a lot wayfarer, that's really informative.
    Only one of these adds to your value as a human being: Consuming things other people have made or making your own.
    link

  6. #426

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    Quote Originally Posted by OrbitalDawn View Post
    This doesn't seem accurate. There's a lot of ritual and regulation in Islam. Much more than protestant Christianity, for example. I think it's more simple in terms of hierarchy, but the practice of the religion isn't simple at all. Paraphernalia is also a requirement for women, is it not?
    Not to mention the different schools of thought where scholars constantly differ on what is right and wrong in Islam.

    As a result there's never a straightforward answer, which ultimately undermines exactly how simple a religion it claims to be.

  7. #427

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    Quote Originally Posted by MexicanStandoff View Post
    Not to mention the different schools of thought where scholars constantly differ on what is right and wrong in Islam. As a result there's never a straightforward answer...
    This misunderstanding of Islamic practice is one of the biggest myths about Islam. Mainstream Muslims fall within one of the four schools of thought. By far, most matters are agreed upon between the schools, and it should be noted that each school is internally coherent. Differences exist because advanced scholarship has slightly differing methods for exploring interpretive possibilities and operationalising Sacred Texts. As has been mentioned, mainstream Muslims practice within one of the four coherent schools, and not across them all, so Muslims are quite content within their respective schools.

    Nevertheless, rather than lamenting the differences that do exist, scholars have always celebrated it, as it contributes towards making Islam more rich and dynamic, rather than a homogeneous blob (ironically, another famous myth is the homogeneous blob myth). Scholars agree that the differences that do exist are a mercy, as it provides alternative dispensation that is very useful under challenging circumstances.

    ... which ultimately undermines exactly how simple a religion it claims to be.
    The original discussion was about worship, specifically in the context of symbols and intermediaries involved in prayer. It has already been concluded here, but you are welcome to pursue it further in the tossed thread.

  8. #428

    Default Revert vs Convert

    Quote Originally Posted by AfricanTech View Post
    (Revert)

    ...the most singularly arrogant way of referring to someone who chooses to take up Islam as a religious belief over others... implies that all other religions started out as Islam and gradually got corrupted - that the one and only original religion is Islam and no other. Hence, people who change to Islam are merely reverting back to the original state. The sheer arrogance of that word in this context is breathtaking. interestingly, I've only noticed it creeping into common usage in South Africa (cant talk for anywhere else) in the last 10 years or so with the rise of the Muslim 'intellectual'

    Now, my hypothesis on why the word 'revert' is used as opposed to 'convert' may be wrong, if so, Mineer/Wayfarer /Falcon, please enlighten me.
    Thank you for asking for clarity on this matter.

    You are correct in that the English term "revert" (used in the context of someone who embraces Islam) is relatively new, not only in SA, but also in the rest of the world.

    The "revert/convert" terminology is not generally a matter of popular discussion or a significant matter of faith, and most Muslims are comfortable with either term. Most Muslim scholars in the English speaking world still prefer the term convert, but revert has been enjoying increasing popularity.

    Support for the term "revert"

    Those that support the term "revert" usually base their preference on a Hadith about fitra. The Arabic word fitra has the meanings of natural disposition/innocence/natural inclination towards monotheism/instinctive submission to the One. Christians, such as Calvinists, have a similar concept, called Sensus divinitatis.

    The Hadith about fitra states:

    Prophet Muhammad said. "Each child is born in a state of fitra, then his parents make him a Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian..." (Hadith)

    Naturally, Muslims do not regard the credal interpretation of the One God by Jews/Christians/etc. to be sufficiently accurate. As one would expect, those religious traditions have the same view of Islam. This is by no means extraordinary, nor can it be said that it is the epitome arrogance. Each tradition or school of thought would present itself as the most valid/reliable/accurate. Therefore, Muslims see Judaism/Christianity/etc. as deviations from the fitra, and the act of becoming Muslim as a return (reversion) to "fitra".

    The 4 types of Islam defined in the Quran

    Many still prefer the term "convert". While "islam" literally means to submit/surrender (to God), understanding the 4 types of Islam defined in the Quran will help shed light on this matter (I underline the words that are translated from the word "islam", or from its morphological variants):

    1. Islam that means that everything is in a state of submission to God, willingly or unwillingly. This is the natural order of all things created.
      "They seek other than the religion of God, when unto Him submits whosoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, and unto Him they will be returned." (Quran 3:83)
    2. The Islam of the Prophetic Traditions, e.g., Abraham, Jacob. Moses, etc. (This Islam would generally have a common belief system with the Islam of (4) below, but may cetainly have distinct practical manifestations.)
      "When his (Abraham’s) Lord said to him : Surrender! he said : I have surrendered to the Lord of the Worlds ." (Quran 2:131)
      "And when I inspired the disciples of Jesus, (saying to them): Believe in Me and in My messenger , they said: We believe. Bear witness that we are Muslims (those who surrender to God)." (Quran 5:111)
    3. The Islam of the Historical Arabia. This is in reference to specific matters that applied to the Arabs of the time when Islam was still being Revealed (and not yet completed).
    4. Islam of the time from its completion in the prophetic era, which will exist perpetually. This is the "religion of Islam", that which is most commonly referred to when the word "islam" is used in the present day.
      "...This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you as religion, Islam..." (Quran 5:3)


    The "fitra" that the Hadith refers to is consistent with the type of Islam denoted in (1) above. The Islam that new Muslims embrace is the Islam of (4) above. While new Muslims previously (at birth) fell under (1), it is the first time they are falling under (4). They are therefore not "reverting" to (4), but "converting" to it. Hence, some prefer the term "convert".

    I reiterate that this terminology issue is not a matter of great importance, and does not enjoy that much airtime with Muslims.
    Last edited by wayfarer; 21-12-2016 at 01:45 PM.

  9. #429

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    Hi all

    I have received requests from some forum members to conduct a short online live-streaming course on the basics of Islam. People who showed interest included:

    - New Muslims who need a starting point.
    - Long time Muslims who want to refresh (or close the gaps in) their knowledge.
    - Non-Muslims who want to gain a thorough understanding of mainstream Islam.

    I have drawn up a syllabus and created a Moodle online component with downloadable material. I will present the first weekly class this weekend. The course is completely free. PM me if you are interested.

    Note that while questions will be welcome during the class presentations, it will not be a forum for debate.

  10. #430
    Super Grandmaster falcon786's Avatar
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    Nice,sounds interesting,I'll pm you now for details.

    So if its live streaming we will have to be available at the exact time or can we download it later?How does it work exactly?

    If its anything like your posts here,I think it would be quite enjoyable.

  11. #431

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    why is the number 786 so important to islam ?

  12. #432
    Super Grandmaster abzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiaX View Post
    why is the number 786 so important to islam ?
    Because 7 was still hungry after he ate 9, it was during Ramadan.
    i nrrf iy

  13. #433

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    Quote Originally Posted by abzo View Post
    Because 7 was still hungry after he ate 9, it was during Ramadan.
    Hehe. Anyways the course sounds interesting.

  14. #434
    Super Grandmaster isie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiaX View Post
    why is the number 786 so important to islam ?

    its an abbreviation of بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم - bism illāh ir-raḥmān ir-raḥīm
    using the Abjad numerals, each letter in the Arabic alphabet is given a number, and if you take the total value of each letter in بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم you get 786.

    though the representative is not accepted among all Muslims it seems to be very prevalent among those of Indian / Pakistani origin
    Some times the internet is so slow, it would be faster to just fly to Google's headquarters and ask them this $h1t in person.!

  15. #435

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    bism illāh ir-raḥmān ir-raḥīm
    which means ?

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