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Thread: Arguments Redirected from Intro2Islam (obviating derails)

  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by wayfarer View Post
    God alone knows that answer. God commands correct belief and action.
    This is a typical religious reply but I guess its easier to say that only gods knows. Did your god command you to say that?
    DEL PythonFSi

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dudewotevr View Post
    Does he still go to "heaven", or is he going to end up somewhere substantially more humid? ..or I suppose it would be more of a dry heat due to the flames..



    Quote Originally Posted by dudewotevr View Post
    Ye, way to obfuscate, well done.
    Quote Originally Posted by ghoti View Post
    +1. An honest yes or no answer would be great.
    Short answer Yes
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  3. #18
    Karmic Sangoma ghoti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wayfarer View Post
    God alone knows that answer. God commands correct belief and action. However, that is not what will determine salvation. God's Mercy is the only way in which any soul can be saved, and Muslims are required to have hope in God's Mercy.

    This is clearly explained in the Intro thread: The Islamic Concept of Salvation
    So what you are saying is that you dont have to believe in Islam to go to heaven?
    Schrodingers immigrants : Simultaneously stealing your job and too lazy to work.

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghoti View Post
    So what you are saying is that you dont have to believe in Islam to go to heaven?
    Well, he did say:

    God commands correct belief and action.
    DEL PythonFSi

  5. #20
    Karmic Sangoma ghoti's Avatar
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    Im confused now. So can you get into muslim heaven by not believing in Islam? Or is that a requirement?
    Schrodingers immigrants : Simultaneously stealing your job and too lazy to work.

  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mineer View Post

    Short answer Yes
    So is it yes to heaven or hell?
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dudewotevr View Post
    Ye, way to obfuscate, well done.
    Quote Originally Posted by dudewotevr View Post
    So is it yes to heaven or hell?
    agree'd both

    You are welcomed to argue further, but from a theist point of you will end up in 1 of the 2 situations. Islam just does not draw a line in the sand and say believe our way or you WILL go to hell, no if's, and's or but's. You may obtain heaven by living a good life, this is at God's discretion but if you want structure and direction in obtaining Heaven, here follow these steps found in Holy Quran.

    Understandably this makes the presumption that God exists, a whole other argument

    simply put Islam is a way of life that may lead you into heaven,
    “We know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians.”― Nelson Mandela

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mineer View Post
    agree'd both

    You are welcomed to argue further, but from a theist point of you will end up in 1 of the 2 situations. Islam just does not draw a line in the sand and say believe our way or you WILL go to hell, no if's, and's or but's. You may obtain heaven by living a good life, this is at God's discretion but if you want structure and direction in obtaining Heaven, here follow these steps found in Holy Quran.

    Understandably this makes the presumption that God exists, a whole other argument

    simply put Islam is a way of life that may lead you into heaven,
    Okay, so what you are saying is you dont have to be a muslim to get into heaven. Fantastic. Then no need to be a muslim in the first place. Just be a good person.
    Schrodingers immigrants : Simultaneously stealing your job and too lazy to work.

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghoti View Post
    Okay, so what you are saying is you dont have to be a muslim to get into heaven. Fantastic. Then no need to be a muslim in the first place. Just be a good person.
    Yay!

    Weird that some people need some sort of manual/guide/walkthrough to being a good person and living a good life.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghoti View Post
    Okay, so what you are saying is you dont have to be a muslim to get into heaven. Fantastic. Then no need to be a muslim in the first place. Just be a good person.
    Quote Originally Posted by dudewotevr View Post
    Yay!

    Weird that some people need some sort of manual/guide/walkthrough to being a good person and living a good life.
    beware of over simplifying

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy...e_single_cause
    http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQ...l_oversimp.htm

    Firstly you complain of obfuscation then when I try to simplify for you, you oversimplify
    Last edited by Mineer; 11-09-2012 at 03:51 PM.
    “We know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians.”― Nelson Mandela

  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mineer View Post
    agree'd both

    You are welcomed to argue further, but from a theist point of you will end up in 1 of the 2 situations. Islam just does not draw a line in the sand and say believe our way or you WILL go to hell, no if's, and's or but's. You may obtain heaven by living a good life, this is at God's discretion but if you want structure and direction in obtaining Heaven, here follow these steps found in Holy Quran.

    Understandably this makes the presumption that God exists, a whole other argument

    simply put Islam is a way of life that may lead you into heaven,
    BUSTED

    Conditions of going to Paradise

    According to the Qur'an, the basic criteria for salvation in afterlife is the belief in one God (Tawḥīd), Last Judgment, good deeds, and in all the messengers of God, as well as believing that Muhammad is the final prophet of God.


    Though one must do good deeds and believe in God, salvation can only be attained through God's judgement.[6]

    Conditions of going to Paradise according to the Qur'an:


    Those who spend (freely), whether in prosperity, or in adversity; who restrain anger, and pardon (all) men;- for Allah loves those who do good;-
    And those who, having done something to be ashamed of, or wronged their own souls, earnestly bring Allah to mind, and ask for forgiveness for their sins,- and who can forgive sins except Allah?- and are never obstinate in persisting knowingly in (the wrong) they have done.
    For such the reward is forgiveness from their Lord, and Gardens with rivers flowing underneath,- an eternal dwelling: How excellent a recompense for those who work (and strive)!

    —Qur'an, sura 3 (Al-i-Imran), ayat 134 - 136[7]


    Allah did aforetime take a covenant from the Children of Israel, and we appointed twelve captains among them. And Allah said: "I am with you: if ye (but) establish regular prayers, practise regular charity, believe in my messengers, honour and assist them, and loan to Allah a beautiful loan, verily I will wipe out from you your evils, and admit you to gardens with rivers flowing beneath; but if any of you, after this, resisteth faith, he hath truly wandered from the path or rectitude."

    —Qur'an, sura 5 (al-Māʾidah) ayah 12[8]

    As in life there are many trials which one must face. This is also a condition individuals must encounter in order to enter Jannah.


    Or do ye think that ye shall enter the Garden (of bliss) without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? they encountered suffering and adversity, and were so shaken in spirit that even the Messenger and those of faith who were with him cried: "When (will come) the help of Allah?" Ah! Verily, the help of Allah is (always) near!

    —Qur'an, sura 2 (al-Baqarah), ayah 214[9]


    Did ye think that ye would enter Heaven without Allah testing those of you who fought hard (In His Cause) and remained steadfast?

    —Qur'an, sura 3 (Al-i-Imran), ayah 142[10]

    The Qur'an also asserts that those who reject the Prophets of God with their best knowledge are damned in afterlife[6] and if they reject in front of the Messenger of God, then they also face dreadful fate in this world and in afterlife (see Itmam al-hujjah). Conversely, a person who discovers monotheism not having been reached by a messenger is called Hanif.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_...l_enter_heaven

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by R/SGT View Post
    BUSTED
    Shame they don't actually want to come out and say it!
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  13. #28
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    What you said above kinda re-affirms what was said in the previous 2 posts. You all acknowledge messengers. You believe in God. The only thing that remains is good deeds???

    I don't see how you busted anything???
    Better to Live 1 Day as a Lion then 1000 Years as a Sheep

  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by moosag View Post
    What you said above kinda re-affirms what was said in the previous 2 posts. You all acknowledge messengers. You believe in God. The only thing that remains is good deeds???

    I don't see how you busted anything???
    Well it burns down to some Muslims saying yes all non-Muslim people will in fact go to hell, and some saying I don't know, when the scripture clearly indicates our fate..*scary voice*

    I'm definitely going to heaven, so I'm not worried. Chat later up there! ..Well, if you guys make it. :/ I, for one, truly hope you do!
    [email protected] | 16GB DDR4-2666 | GTX 1060 | 250GB 850 EVO | RM550x | LA32D550

  15. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by moosag View Post
    What you said above kinda re-affirms what was said in the previous 2 posts. You all acknowledge messengers. You believe in God. The only thing that remains is good deeds???

    I don't see how you busted anything???
    Islam just does not draw a line in the sand and say believe our way or you WILL go to hell, no if's, and's or but's.

    Conditions of going to Paradise

    According to the Qur'an, the basic criteria for salvation in afterlife is the belief
    • in one God (Tawḥīd),
    • Last Judgment,
    • good deeds,
    • and in all the messengers of God,
    • as well as believing that Muhammad is the final prophet of God.


    If you dont believe in Muhammed you dont pass go, I think that qualifies as a line in the sand?

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