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Thread: Catalans vote to split from Spain amid violent police crackdown

  1. #1

    Default Catalans vote to split from Spain amid violent police crackdown

    Catalans vote to split from Spain amid violent police crackdown
    http://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/01/eu...ult/index.html

    Barcelona (CNN)Spain is facing a political crisis after Catalans voted for independence in a contested referendum that descended into violence when police cracked down on polling booths, injuring hundreds.
    The Catalan government said late Sunday it had earned the right to independence from Spain after preliminary results showed 90% of respondents were in favor of a split, though turnout was relatively low.

    Spain's Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy said that the vote was illegitimate.
    "At this point, I can tell you very clearly: Today a self-determination referendum in Catalonia didn't happen," he said in a televised speech.
    Some 844 people were injured as riot police raided polling stations, dragged away voters and fired rubber bullets during clashes Sunday -- scenes that reverberated across Europe.
    The Catalan government blamed Madrid for the police heavy-handedness and called on the European Union to respond.
    "I want to make clear that all responsibility, all violence acts, repression is exclusively on the government of Rajoy, " the region's Minister of Foreign Affairs Raül Romeva said.
    "Today Europe has to choose, shame or dignity. Violence or democracy, this is our demand. With this demand, we begin to work for a response to these circumstances. The absence of a response would suppose a lack and loss of credibility to the EU and its institutions."


    Catalonia's separatist government pushed forward with the vote despite opposition from Madrid and a ruling from the country's top court declaring it illegal.
    Catalan nationalists argue the region is a separate nation with its own history, culture and language, and that it should have increased fiscal independence.


    Catalan govt: 'Democracy won'
    Catalan's government said that despite the attempts at voter suppression, "today democracy won."
    "It has been a long day, a day of emotions, a hard day, of material damages and personal injuries," government spokesperson Jordi Turull said
    Of 2.2 million ballots counted so far, about 90% were in favor of independence, Turull said in a news conference shortly after midnight. Some 15,000 votes are still pending, Turull said.
    Turnout in Catalonia, which has 5.3 million total eligible voters, would have been higher if not for suppression at the polls by Spanish national police, Turull said. Up to 770,000 votes were lost as a result of the polling station crackdowns, the Catalan government estimated Monday.

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    Grandmaster
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    Free them

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    Super Grandmaster BBSA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackMamba View Post
    Free them
    Would you say the same if it was the Western Cape?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackMamba View Post
    Free them
    They can't. Otherwise the Basque region would demand freedom immediately and god knows
    How many bombs the basque separatists (ETA )set off in Spain and elsewhere demanding separation in the Past.
    SEALAND Honary Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary

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    A Djinn
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    Kick Barcelona out of La Liga
    Quote Originally Posted by CorrieV2.0 View Post
    ... trust me I will feel threatened when you come.

  6. #6

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    If Catalan becomes independent, should they be part of the EU?

    See what I did there?

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    Super Grandmaster ToxicBunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick_Hockstetter View Post
    If Catalan becomes independent, should they be part of the EU?

    See what I did there?
    Of course we did Paddy....

    It wasn't very clever though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Korn1 View Post
    I have been called a retard my whole life

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    Ulysses Everett McGill OrbitalDawn's Avatar
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    Catalans were against independence before this, AFAIK. Pretty solid way to ensure the opposite view will gain traction. Good job, Rajoy.
    "Poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese."

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja'd View Post
    Kick Barcelona out of La Liga
    Barcelona and Espanyol

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick_Hockstetter View Post
    If Catalan becomes independent, should they be part of the EU?

    See what I did there?
    I know your boss is looking keenly at the developments

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by BBSA View Post
    Would you say the same if it was the Western Cape?
    Catalonia's situation and that of WC are different.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick_Hockstetter View Post
    If Catalan becomes independent, should they be part of the EU?

    See what I did there?
    Probably not because all the countries with independence movements (UK, France, Spain, Italy, Belgium and probably a few others) will reject the entrance in the EU fearing in order for an indépendant Catalunya to fail.

  13. #13

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    Great and very worrying development at the same time.

    I'm all for smaller independent regions. Big government only leads to big corruption and the only way to combat this and ensure proper democracy is to have power at a local level were politicians can be held accountable to the true will of the people.
    Its worrying to see the use of violence to retain power in this day and age in developed countries. I'm certain if they cesede the EU will make an example out of them so they would have little chance of success.
    How much more do we need to be worried our democracy will fall apart.

  14. #14

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    90% of 2.26 million voters (while there are 5.3 millions) voted yes.

    712 of the 948 municipalities participated in the vote, the voters of the other 236 being excluded from voting.

    Doesn’t sound that democratic. The result is way under 50%...

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by f2wohf View Post
    90% of 2.26 million voters (while there are 5.3 millions) voted yes.

    712 of the 948 municipalities participated in the vote, the voters of the other 236 being excluded from voting.

    Doesn’t sound that democratic. The result is way under 50%...
    Stats 101. Abstaining or not voting out of fear of being beaten by the police isn't a "no" vote.
    Abstaining actually means you don't care about the outcome.
    If you have a big enough sample size(a few million people will do fine) you can accurately determine "The will of the people" as forcing everyone to vote will likely follow the same trend.

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