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Thread: Cape Town's groundwater plan targets 'impossible'

  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyLion View Post
    The problem with existing Sea Water Distillation is the huge amount of energy required to completely remove ALL of the salt content.
    This is an often repeated myth. Desalination uses roughly 4kWh of electricity per thousand litres of clean drinking water (and can be even more efficient than this). That's only R8 bucks worth at retail residential tariffs. Eskom is desperate to sell some of their 4000MW of excess power. A desal plant would only use around 40MW. There is plenty of electricity available and the water produced would be affordable, if only a bit more expensive than dam water.

    There would be little benefit to building a salt water cleansing plant and millions of new pipelines. It is cheapest to just build a proper potable water desal plant, long term.

  2. #17

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    We've delayed for too long'

    During his presentation, Hartnady said their current expectation is to extract up to 10 million cubic meters per annum from the Table Mountain Group Aquifer, roughly 27 million litres per day.

    "But implementing that in a short space of time is not going to be easy. We are not committing to any definite figures by any definite dates," he said.

    "We've delayed for too long. We had five years more or less of kicking our heels and that's been [a] very frustrating experience."
    Prof Hartnady was on Carte Blanche early this year with a report entitled Cape-Water-Crisis but I cannot seem to find the link again?
    Here is an article from around the same period. Cape Town’s untapped water source explored
    Look at the dates. The City muddled since 2011 when Overstrand Municipality installed their ground spike and just 120km from Cape Town there are no water restrictions there.
    While tapping into the Table Mountain Aquifer will help us eventually, had the City not shelved it, it could have averted the potable water crises as it stands now.

    My wife and I have removed ourselves from all Social Media platforms in regards to the potable water story, cannot stand this blow by blow account of maybe it will or wont rain and finger pointing, making a living is tough enough not to mention being drawn into the bureaucratic balls up of a Municipality and their shortcomings.
    I think the post 2008 Electricity bombshell/bolt balls up was enough in one lifetime. What is the ongoing cost to our economy with that story, now its water, what’s next.

    Each and every step of the way we have to continue to monitor our own Government, who have our money, make all the laws to restrict us, yet when they fail to perform are almost immune to litigation or any form of recourse or apology.

    Its like 1998 when all the experts told Eskom, by 2008 we will run out of capacity.
    Now we have experts like Hartnady who several years ago alerted the bureaucrats to the looming capacity problem with water, but once again they chose to ignore and shelve.

    So after my little rant, let me make a prediction based on our recent past:
    Electricity: 1998 to 2008 Eskom was warned, 2008 it broke. 2008 to 2017 prices hiked.
    2017 we have too much capacity, price still too expensive, consumers cutting back and/or using alternatives.
    Water: 2001 to 2016 Water Department/City of Cape Town warned of impending capacity problem and potential drought. 2004 to 2017 Prices increased with level 2/3 penalties. 2016, water system running dry, crisis looming, two dryer winters in a row. 2017, plans about plans about to be implemented. 2017 prices hiked through the roof.
    Prediction 2019 to 2021-Cape of Storms, dams full to capacity, water crisis on hold, restrictions relaxed. High % of consumers have now switched over to alternative water sources, but using less potable water meaning less revenue for the City. City cant sell its full dams and now extended capacity through desalination and ground spikes at considerable expenditure. Cape returns to its former greener self, City of Cape Town encouraging people to use their water with the usual media spin of saving etc. All the time the non-paying consumers continue on as per normal.
    You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.
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  3. #18
    Grandmaster Zoomzoom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BTTB View Post
    Prof Hartnady was on Carte Blanche early this year with a report entitled Cape-Water-Crisis but I cannot seem to find the link again?
    Here is an article from around the same period. Cape Town’s untapped water source explored
    Look at the dates. The City muddled since 2011 when Overstrand Municipality installed their ground spike and just 120km from Cape Town there are no water restrictions there.
    While tapping into the Table Mountain Aquifer will help us eventually, had the City not shelved it, it could have averted the potable water crises as it stands now.

    My wife and I have removed ourselves from all Social Media platforms in regards to the potable water story, cannot stand this blow by blow account of maybe it will or wont rain and finger pointing, making a living is tough enough not to mention being drawn into the bureaucratic balls up of a Municipality and their shortcomings.
    I think the post 2008 Electricity bombshell/bolt balls up was enough in one lifetime. What is the ongoing cost to our economy with that story, now its water, what’s next.

    Each and every step of the way we have to continue to monitor our own Government, who have our money, make all the laws to restrict us, yet when they fail to perform are almost immune to litigation or any form of recourse or apology.

    Its like 1998 when all the experts told Eskom, by 2008 we will run out of capacity.
    Now we have experts like Hartnady who several years ago alerted the bureaucrats to the looming capacity problem with water, but once again they chose to ignore and shelve.

    So after my little rant, let me make a prediction based on our recent past:
    Electricity: 1998 to 2008 Eskom was warned, 2008 it broke. 2008 to 2017 prices hiked.
    2017 we have too much capacity, price still too expensive, consumers cutting back and/or using alternatives.
    Water: 2001 to 2016 Water Department/City of Cape Town warned of impending capacity problem and potential drought. 2004 to 2017 Prices increased with level 2/3 penalties. 2016, water system running dry, crisis looming, two dryer winters in a row. 2017, plans about plans about to be implemented. 2017 prices hiked through the roof.
    Prediction 2019 to 2021-Cape of Storms, dams full to capacity, water crisis on hold, restrictions relaxed. High % of consumers have now switched over to alternative water sources, but using less potable water meaning less revenue for the City. City cant sell its full dams and now extended capacity through desalination and ground spikes at considerable expenditure. Cape returns to its former greener self, City of Cape Town encouraging people to use their water with the usual media spin of saving etc. All the time the non-paying consumers continue on as per normal.
    There are several important things you are leaving out of those scenarios.

    1. The energy 'crisis' was made up, the water crisis is not.

    2. The DA, like Eskom WILL make sure the consumer pays through their nose for the shortages.

    3. When all the consumers have adjusted to lower consumption, switched to whatever alternatives they can afford to install there WILL be some made up fake tariffs to make up for the loss of income because god forbid that anyone lose out financially because the bloody consumers actually LISTENED when they were told to use less.

    Net result - there will be insane profits pocketed by someone, the consumer will suffer financially irrespective of how much they save, use less, switch to alternatives. There will never be a price decrease when there is plenty, in fact plenty, will some how mean even more price increases such as Eskom's 19% for next year for god knows what.

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoomzoom View Post
    There are several important things you are leaving out of those scenarios.

    1. The energy 'crisis' was made up, the water crisis is not.

    2. The DA, like Eskom WILL make sure the consumer pays through their nose for the shortages.

    3. When all the consumers have adjusted to lower consumption, switched to whatever alternatives they can afford to install there WILL be some made up fake tariffs to make up for the loss of income because god forbid that anyone lose out financially because the bloody consumers actually LISTENED when they were told to use less.

    Net result - there will be insane profits pocketed by someone, the consumer will suffer financially irrespective of how much they save, use less, switch to alternatives. There will never be a price decrease when there is plenty, in fact plenty, will some how mean even more price increases such as Eskom's 19% for next year for god knows what.

    Summed up pretty well except that the water crisis is purely due to the inactivity of the DA Council which did fokal during the years that it was brewing.

    All that is left now is for the Council to call in a witchdoctor to drum up some rain.
    Nightjar to chunk10 - “Up yours”

  5. #20

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    Sounds to me that we don't have the brains in South Africa.

  6. #21

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    @Thor We do have the brains. The problem is that we keep electing public officials who were born without ears.
    I'm Smart as a horse and hung like Einstein.
    Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you - Joseph Heller, Catch-22

  7. #22
    Super Grandmaster Archer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightjar View Post
    Summed up pretty well except that the water crisis is purely due to the inactivity of the DA Council which did fokal during the years that it was brewing.

    All that is left now is for the Council to call in a witchdoctor to drum up some rain.
    I'm curious, in which years was this brewing? Dams were overflowing for 3 or 4 consecutive years before this drought which is a 1 in every 1000 year event (and note that typically cities design for 1 in 33 year events...). Would you as a taxpayer have been happy to spend lots more money on water projects that at the time would have looked completely unnecessary? Ya, I'm sure you would've been 100% ok with it... These hindsight goggles sure are cool though

  8. #23

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    Thing is, we can't say 1 in a 1000 years anymore. Climate has changed. We can't predict what future rainfall will be like. Our models are based on historic trends which no longer apply.

    That said, a city with zero backup is pretty vulnerable. The population in the WC will also continue to increase.

  9. #24
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    There is a plan to extract the hot water expelled from Koeberg's No 1 and 2 reactors and pump 1300 kilolitres of water directly into a desalination plant built next to it. This hot water will require significantly less electrical energy to be desalinated.

    Heaven forbid if there is a reactor leak.

    http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/art...29/rep_id:4136
    Last edited by SweetFennyAdams; 13-10-2017 at 09:37 AM.
    Ordinary morality is only for ordinary people.

  10. #25
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    We've delayed for too long. We had five years more or less of kicking our heels and that's been [a] very frustrating experience."
    this is why the DA must bear some responsibility for this situation. why did they undertake that study if there wasn't a concern about the water situation already? it then takes them 5 years to actually start acting on the recommendations of the study. blameless? hardly.

  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archer View Post
    I'm curious, in which years was this brewing? Dams were overflowing for 3 or 4 consecutive years before this drought which is a 1 in every 1000 year event (and note that typically cities design for 1 in 33 year events...). Would you as a taxpayer have been happy to spend lots more money on water projects that at the time would have looked completely unnecessary? Ya, I'm sure you would've been 100% ok with it... These hindsight goggles sure are cool though
    well said.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by qscwbt View Post
    well said.
    +1, gift of hindsight

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