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Thread: Upgrade to a "fun to drive" car

  1. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbarian, Conan View Post
    The DCTs don't handle high torque as well as conventional autos. The ZF 8 Speed is used in the Audi RS7, but the DSG boxes are still used in the less powerful models.
    I expect the same will happen on the BMW side. The crazy torquey cars will get a great auto, and the less powerful M models will get the M-DCT boxes.
    Porsche 911 GT2 RS, exact same torque figures as the new BMW M5 and a significant jump in power output from the BMW M5 ... uses a PDK (DCT in Porsche speak) transmission. So if Porsche can do it ...
    none so blind as those who refuse to see

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    Hi Guys,

    An update - what I have driven so far and my impressions:

    1) Opel Astra 1.6T Sport Plus - commented on this last time - really like everything about the car except the understeer on highway curved offramp.
    2) 2017 Audi A3 2.0T Auto - Went to the dealer to test drive it, apparently it was "out on loan" or whatever that means, so the car wasn't there. Told him to call me back once the car is there again. I have also put in 2 online requests for a new 2.0 so wiaitng for someone to have one for me to test drive.
    3) 2016 BMW 120i Auto - Very boring drive. It felt like a 2.0 naturally aspired car. Also, felt "larger" and less nimble than others, yet the car itself isn't actually larger. Also, a surprising amount of wind noise on the highway for a German car. So this car is off my list...
    4) 2017 Golf 7 GTI Manual - This one was a surprising one. In terms of fun factor, it was amazing. Not AS much fun as the Astra, but still loads of fun (I think the reason could be the fact that 2nd gear goes up to 100km/h, making it less "punchy" per gear from 3rd upwards). Additionally, I took 2 sharp curvy highway onramps and the thing stuck like glue to the 1st onramp. It only skidded slightly on the 2nd onramp. What surprised me though is road noise - I could clearly "hear" the roll of the tires when on the highway, and also a bit of wind noise coming in. It also felt like the turbo didn't kick in in the higher gears as effectively as the Astra (that could be because of the gear ratio thing I mentioned above).
    This one did include DCC (Dynamic Chassis Control) and I toggled between sports and normal. Not sure what was going on in sport, but it almost felt like half way through revving, the gear would downshift. Obviously that has something to do with extra torque being pushed or something. Case in point - in 2nd gear, I could only get to 80km/h in sport mode, but over 100km/h in normal mode. I guess I'd get used to this after driving it a bit and learning how sports mode works best.
    5) Ford Focus 1.5T - no stock yet from Ford for me to test drive
    6) Renault Megane GT - I have put in a request to test drive one and one is available, but haven't seen any glowing reviews online for this car. Is it worth comparing to the rest?

    So so far, Astra has its pros and Golf has its pros.
    Astra - More turbo "feel", quieter cabin (surprising), more tech features, bigger 8 inch infotainment console compared to golf 5.8 inch, R90k cheaper than the golf, 5yr service plan compared to golf 3yr, much less hijack risk than a golf, slightly bigger rear passenger space, feels more modern inside than the Golf
    Golf - Probably a more reliable and well built car in general, much higher resale value, DCC to enable comfort mode for longer trips etc, almost certainly cheaper and more easily available parts, better after sales support, rear passenger air vents

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    Told you to try the 125i but from what I have seen you donít really like BMWs and you are afraid to just say so for some reason. Anyways happy hunting . Buy what you love
    Yo Soy La Princesa

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    Quote Originally Posted by epah View Post
    Told you to try the 125i but from what I have seen you don’t really like BMWs and you are afraid to just say so for some reason. Anyways happy hunting . Buy what you love
    Not at all - I really gave BMW a fair chance by going to BMW and driving the 120i.
    If you say the 125i will be a vastly different experience to the 120i, I'm willing to try that too (and up budget a bit). Would you say it would be very different?

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    120i is bit crappy, engine does not have any poke!

    When you buy a fun to drive car, it needs to kick you in the seat when the turbo kicks in!
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    Super Grandmaster SauRoNZA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NarrowBandFtw View Post
    Porsche 911 GT2 RS, exact same torque figures as the new BMW M5 and a significant jump in power output from the BMW M5 ... uses a PDK (DCT in Porsche speak) transmission. So if Porsche can do it ...
    Itís extra funny because the Porsche box is in fact a ZF box...which is what he was punting as a replacement for DCT.

    They pretty much invented it.

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    Default Upgrade to a "fun to drive" car

    Quote Originally Posted by alkit View Post
    Hi Guys,

    An update - what I have driven so far and my impressions:

    1) Opel Astra 1.6T Sport Plus - commented on this last time - really like everything about the car except the understeer on highway curved offramp.
    2) 2017 Audi A3 2.0T Auto - Went to the dealer to test drive it, apparently it was "out on loan" or whatever that means, so the car wasn't there. Told him to call me back once the car is there again. I have also put in 2 online requests for a new 2.0 so wiaitng for someone to have one for me to test drive.
    3) 2016 BMW 120i Auto - Very boring drive. It felt like a 2.0 naturally aspired car. Also, felt "larger" and less nimble than others, yet the car itself isn't actually larger. Also, a surprising amount of wind noise on the highway for a German car. So this car is off my list...
    4) 2017 Golf 7 GTI Manual - This one was a surprising one. In terms of fun factor, it was amazing. Not AS much fun as the Astra, but still loads of fun (I think the reason could be the fact that 2nd gear goes up to 100km/h, making it less "punchy" per gear from 3rd upwards). Additionally, I took 2 sharp curvy highway onramps and the thing stuck like glue to the 1st onramp. It only skidded slightly on the 2nd onramp. What surprised me though is road noise - I could clearly "hear" the roll of the tires when on the highway, and also a bit of wind noise coming in. It also felt like the turbo didn't kick in in the higher gears as effectively as the Astra (that could be because of the gear ratio thing I mentioned above).
    This one did include DCC (Dynamic Chassis Control) and I toggled between sports and normal. Not sure what was going on in sport, but it almost felt like half way through revving, the gear would downshift. Obviously that has something to do with extra torque being pushed or something. Case in point - in 2nd gear, I could only get to 80km/h in sport mode, but over 100km/h in normal mode. I guess I'd get used to this after driving it a bit and learning how sports mode works best.
    5) Ford Focus 1.5T - no stock yet from Ford for me to test drive
    6) Renault Megane GT - I have put in a request to test drive one and one is available, but haven't seen any glowing reviews online for this car. Is it worth comparing to the rest?

    So so far, Astra has its pros and Golf has its pros.
    Astra - More turbo "feel", quieter cabin (surprising), more tech features, bigger 8 inch infotainment console compared to golf 5.8 inch, R90k cheaper than the golf, 5yr service plan compared to golf 3yr, much less hijack risk than a golf, slightly bigger rear passenger space, feels more modern inside than the Golf
    Golf - Probably a more reliable and well built car in general, much higher resale value, DCC to enable comfort mode for longer trips etc, almost certainly cheaper and more easily available parts, better after sales support, rear passenger air vents
    A sportier car is going to be noisier for the fact that it has had weight reduction applied and has less padding and possibly thinner doors etc.

    I have always found the GTIís to be a bit more extreme in this regard and I suspect itís due to the mirror design pushing air straight into the top rubber window areas.

    No idea how sport mode could give you less speed, gears are static and canít just change with fuel maps and what not.

    Now to drive the DSG version and I almost guarantee that will be the car you buy as many suggested in this thread.
    Last edited by SauRoNZA; 14-01-2018 at 02:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SauRoNZA View Post
    A sportier car is going to be noisier for the fact that it has had weight reduction applied and has less padding and possibly thinner doors etc.

    I have always found the GTIís to be a bit more extreme in this regard and I suspect itís due to the mirror design pushing air straight into the top rubber window areas.

    No idea how sport mode could give you less speed, gears are static and canít just change with fuel maps and what not.

    Now to drive the DSG version and I almost guarantee that will be the car you buy as many suggested in this thread.
    What it could be doing is changing shift points to remain in the torque band more, but I also find this incredibly weird. My wife's GTI certainly doesn't do this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rouxenator View Post
    Aye, but 'tis rare. That's my thing, rare no matter if it's POS

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    Quote Originally Posted by alkit View Post
    Not at all - I really gave BMW a fair chance by going to BMW and driving the 120i.
    If you say the 125i will be a vastly different experience to the 120i, I'm willing to try that too (and up budget a bit). Would you say it would be very different?
    The 125i has about 50 more kilowatts so itís definitely quicker and punchier.

    The GTI is a great car however if you live in Gauteng itís basically driving around a target on your back and I donít think itís worth it in my opinion.
    Yo Soy La Princesa

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    Quote Originally Posted by alkit View Post
    Not at all - I really gave BMW a fair chance by going to BMW and driving the 120i.
    If you say the 125i will be a vastly different experience to the 120i, I'm willing to try that too (and up budget a bit). Would you say it would be very different?
    The 120i is a potato.

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    Default Upgrade to a "fun to drive" car

    Quote Originally Posted by Messugga View Post
    What it could be doing is changing shift points to remain in the torque band more, but I also find this incredibly weird. My wife's GTI certainly doesn't do this.
    Yea but itís a manual he drove.

    And even then sports mode revs it out, not changing early like on Drive mode.

    I suspect OP based on previous comments isnít the worlds greatest driver and hasnít driven too many cars and is maybe overthinking and analysing things.

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    Go test drive that same golf, but in dsg. You will then definitely want to buy that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SauRoNZA View Post
    I suspect OP based on previous comments isn’t the worlds greatest driver and hasn’t driven too many cars and is maybe overthinking and analysing things.
    I think the 2 go hand in hand - when someone hasn't had a lot of experience with something, they tend not to be great at it (there are exceptions, granted). I've only ever mainly driven 2 very basic cars since I got my license and I most definitely am not experienced with what is out there (hence this thread). I have also never been to any advanced type driving course. So yeh, definitely not the world's greatest driver by any stretch of the imagination.
    Am I overthinking and over analyzing - sure, 100%! But when you get to test drive a car for 5 whole minutes then have to make an almost half a bar decision based on that, then yes, its a decision that needs analysis.

    What happened with that Golf - I'm really not sure, but I even asked the salesman while I was driving and if he felt the surge in revs, and he did too. What it was doing, I don't know, but if I would have had more than 3 minutes in sports mode, I probably could have eventually figured it out. It was really just a side point though, not something that factored in to my impression of the car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alkit View Post
    Am I overthinking and over analyzing - sure, 100%! But when you get to test drive a car for 5 whole minutes then have to make an almost half a bar decision based on that, then yes, its a decision that needs analysis.
    That is a fundamental problem for me as well, especially as a motorcyclist where you go test ride a bike and nobody can come with you and often they don't give a damn if you spend hours away with it unless it's a brand new bike and a Saturday morning with other people waiting in line.

    Part of the very reason I ended up buying my GTI was because the sales woman really knew her stuff and overall I spent about two hours driving that car over two test drives.

    What happened with that Golf - I'm really not sure, but I even asked the salesman while I was driving and if he felt the surge in revs, and he did too. What it was doing, I don't know, but if I would have had more than 3 minutes in sports mode, I probably could have eventually figured it out. It was really just a side point though, not something that factored in to my impression of the car.
    Are you absolutely sure it wasn't just the turbo you were feeling? The GTI's only really start boosting from 3500-4500 rpm.

    I'm convinced if you test drive the DSG you'll want to buy that.

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