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Thread: Gauteng education department, school in court over additional placements

  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by JungleBoy View Post
    Somewhere in the article it says the school has 21 classrooms with a capacity of 840 learners, but currently only accepts 621. Work with me on the Maths. There is space for 200+ more kids and you call that full?
    Because 840/21 is 40 kids per a classroom, that's insane. 30 per a class is a safe number and anymore than that starts to get harder for the teacher to actually teach. Just because you can cram 40+ kids into a classroom doesn't make them able to be taught.
    I've been around for a long, long year

  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lupus View Post
    Because 840/21 is 40 kids per a classroom, that's insane. 30 per a class is a safe number and anymore than that starts to get harder for the teacher to actually teach. Just because you can cram 40+ kids into a classroom doesn't make them able to be taught.
    Do yourself a favour and go read the norms and standards for public schools. 40 learners per class is the maximum for primary and secondary schools. Only Grade R classes are limited to 30.
    You either abide by the norms and standards or take your little brats to private school.

  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by JungleBoy View Post
    Do yourself a favour and go read the norms and standards for public schools. 40 learners per class is the maximum for primary and secondary schools. Only Grade R classes are limited to 30.
    You either abide by the norms and standards or take your little brats to private school.
    MAXIMUM isn't norms and standards, it means this is the absolute maximum amount per a classroom you should have, it doesn't mean you should have that. And also I never said it's not done I said it's insane as 40 is a lot and it's probably why the SA education is so spectacular at the moment. Unfortunately I only have the option of sending my child to a private school as the lovely government hasn't seen fit to build any new schools in close on 20 years in my area and the closet we aren't in their feeding zone.
    Also most decent public schools still will limit it to around 30 per a class which is also a bit high, but it's still manageable.
    I've been around for a long, long year

  4. #19
    Super Grandmaster ponder's Avatar
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    Think we were just under 30/class
    entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lupus View Post
    MAXIMUM isn't norms and standards, it means this is the absolute maximum amount per a classroom you should have, it doesn't mean you should have that. And also I never said it's not done I said it's insane as 40 is a lot and it's probably why the SA education is so spectacular at the moment. Unfortunately I only have the option of sending my child to a private school as the lovely government hasn't seen fit to build any new schools in close on 20 years in my area and the closet we aren't in their feeding zone.
    Also most decent public schools still will limit it to around 30 per a class which is also a bit high, but it's still manageable.
    But then something isn't full until maximum capacity is reached. Even though less than 40 learners per class is ideal (trust me, I know as a former teacher), sometimes circumstances dictate that we make do with the resources at hand provided the agreed norms and standards are not violated. Like I said, if the classes are too big for your liking, there's always private education. You don't go to a public hospital and expect a private ward now do you?

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JungleBoy View Post
    Somewhere in the article it says the school has 21 classrooms with a capacity of 840 learners, but currently only accepts 621. Work with me on the Maths. There is space for 200+ more kids and you call that full?
    Do the math.
    Department of Education believes each class has a 40 learner capacity. While the school only wants 30 in each class.
    Ask any teacher, a class of 40 is almost impossible to teach.
    Ethics, morals, scruples and a sense of rhythm. I have none of them, and only miss one.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JungleBoy View Post
    But then something isn't full until maximum capacity is reached. Even though less than 40 learners per class is ideal (trust me, I know as a former teacher), sometimes circumstances dictate that we make do with the resources at hand provided the agreed norms and standards are not violated. Like I said, if the classes are too big for your liking, there's always private education. You don't go to a public hospital and expect a private ward now do you?
    Then either you were a **** teacher that was happy with a class filled with 40 students, or you ended up marking the work to a sub-standard level, and completely content with providing sub-standard education to 40 students.

    Or perhaps that's why you left teaching? The unreasonable requests? In which case you are advocating that they do this, and lose teachers? Whose void will then be filled with sub-standard teachers, as that is the only people who will happy with such a situation.

    Not a single teacher that I know of will agree with you or pick the side of the Department in this case. EVERYONE is asking for smaller classes and very thankful for any school that fights for this.

    Source: Am married to teacher, who has lots of teachers friends.
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  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by JungleBoy View Post
    But then something isn't full until maximum capacity is reached. Even though less than 40 learners per class is ideal (trust me, I know as a former teacher), sometimes circumstances dictate that we make do with the resources at hand provided the agreed norms and standards are not violated. Like I said, if the classes are too big for your liking, there's always private education. You don't go to a public hospital and expect a private ward now do you?
    FFS you do not fill a class room to maximum capacity, just because something is set to a maximum of, doesn't mean you have to hit that. Your cars speed has a maximum of 180km/h but it doesn't mean you have to hit that every single time. How could you have been a teacher if the basic concept of maximum isn't in your grasp. Also as a teacher why would you want to attempt to try teach the maximum amount of kids?
    Just because the DOE thinks that 40 is the maximum a class should have doesn't mean it's right or should be the standard.
    I've been around for a long, long year

  9. #24
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    trying to maximise available public resources...and in the process kick the white man...win solution from a political view.
    BSG -the best show!

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JungleBoy View Post
    But then something isn't full until maximum capacity is reached. Even though less than 40 learners per class is ideal (trust me, I know as a former teacher), sometimes circumstances dictate that we make do with the resources at hand provided the agreed norms and standards are not violated. Like I said, if the classes are too big for your liking, there's always private education. You don't go to a public hospital and expect a private ward now do you?
    In a module c school you pay extra so the school body can appoint additional teachers.

  11. #26

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    Fact of the matter is we need more schools and we need more, good teachers and well trained principals. The communities also need to understand that they need to be involved and need to look after the schools.

    Going after schools that work wont solve the problem, rather learn from them.
    May the wors be with you

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponder View Post
    Think we were just under 30/class
    We were 40+ in an Afrikaans school. In Mathematics the classes got down to 25ish.

  13. #28

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    The fact that some are making this a white vs black issue actually says to me this issue is probably more about colour than about capacity. 55 kids extra would probably not have been the end of the world, even if they probably took in half of the extra kids, they might have avoided all of this drama.

    Allowing black kids into a former white school does not automatically bring the standard in the school down.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JungleBoy View Post
    This Afrikaans remains an unnessesary problem. My son's school hardly has Afrikaans pupils and yet it remains compulsory. In his class there is not a single Afrikaans speaking pupil. This begs the question how relevant is Afrikaans for non Afrikaners in 2018? Almost all Afrikaans people are bilingual and can speak English. Most black people are also bilingual i.e. can speak mother tongue and English. We as black people have met white people halfway by learning their language and that is not enough still. We must learn an additional white peoples language while they learn none of ours. White people are no longer in power but to a large extent still want to control the education our kids receive.
    SA missed a golden opportunity to make everyone multilingual. I am all for teaching kids more languages given that it assists with their cognitive development.

  15. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lupus View Post
    FFS you do not fill a class room to maximum capacity, just because something is set to a maximum of, doesn't mean you have to hit that. Your cars speed has a maximum of 180km/h but it doesn't mean you have to hit that every single time. How could you have been a teacher if the basic concept of maximum isn't in your grasp. Also as a teacher why would you want to attempt to try teach the maximum amount of kids?
    Just because the DOE thinks that 40 is the maximum a class should have doesn't mean it's right or should be the standard.
    Mister, the norms and standards document is legally binding and has been in effect since 2013. This is not a wish or an opinion from me but it is what regulates public schools currently. I am done arguing with you on this point. For the last time the school is NOT full as it can accommodate an extra 200+ learners. The department is providing an extra teacher for the additional learners. Now tell me who is being unreasonable here?

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