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Thread: De Lille denies new bribery, corruption complaint laid by DA

  1. #76
    Super Grandmaster Fulcrum29's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4Cat View Post
    It's irrelevant that the article was written by a supporter of de Lille - it doesn't take a genius to figure out that anyone writing in her defence would be interested in defending her!

    If you go through each of his points though - he breaks down the arguments against her - he gives very convincing rebuttals.

    You say "I can agree and disagree with the remarks made in that article" but notably you don't actually say what you agree or disagree with, preferring to fall back on the tired old Ad hominem fallacy. Also note that Simon Grindrod is no longer involved in the ID or DA (he is now a member of COPE) and has nothing gain or lose by publishing this - this makes it far more likely he is doing so out of a real belief that he is doing the right thing in coming to her defence.
    I have already read the article, but a prior version which was published on politicsweb.

    http://www.politicsweb.co.za/opinion...lle-a-rebuttal

    I agree with points made 1, 6 and 7. De Lille is hardly to be blamed alone, but nonetheless she avoided critical debate on the topic.

    Though I agree that the mayoral position is largely a ceremonial position within the DA, it does have its own roles and responsibilities, and privileges, within the municipality. A ceremonial position may be used to exercise powers… see where I already disagree.

    Comparing Loyiso Nkohla, without elaborating, to Bonginkosi Madikezela. Like many other points made it are moving the goalposts in reasoning, hardly comprehensive. He hardly breaks down the arguments.

    Simon Grindrod is still to prove that the Anthony Faul case is an amateurish stitch-up. I have previously elaborated on the complications behind whistleblowing.
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  2. #77
    Grand Master of the Friendzone Chris_the_Brit's Avatar
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    #DeLille Mpofu, the Premier of this province is allowed to continue in her office following racism allegations, why do they want to remove Mayor De Lille following allegations leveled against her
    I don't know...perhaps because a tweet (which was completely misconstrued by the race merchants on Twitter) is not as serious as corruption allegations?

    https://twitter.com/ewnreporter/stat...02304077664256
    Eminently posh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fulcrum29 View Post
    I have already read the article, but a prior version which was published on politicsweb.

    http://www.politicsweb.co.za/opinion...lle-a-rebuttal

    I agree with points made 1, 6 and 7. De Lille is hardly to be blamed alone, but nonetheless she avoided critical debate on the topic.

    Though I agree that the mayoral position is largely a ceremonial position within the DA, it does have its own roles and responsibilities, and privileges, within the municipality. A ceremonial position may be used to exercise powers… see where I already disagree.

    Comparing Loyiso Nkohla, without elaborating, to Bonginkosi Madikezela. Like many other points made it are moving the goalposts in reasoning, hardly comprehensive. He hardly breaks down the arguments.

    Simon Grindrod is still to prove that the Anthony Faul case is an amateurish stitch-up. I have previously elaborated on the complications behind whistleblowing.
    Anthony Faul has no evidence that we are aware of? If his allegations are acted upon without ever being tested in court I would be very suspicious.
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    DA trying to deny De Lille disciplinary hearing – Dali Mpofu

    Cape Town – The DA is using a motion of no confidence against Cape Town Mayor Patricia de Lille to avoid holding disciplinary proceedings against her, Advocate Dali Mpofu SC told the Western Cape High Court on Tuesday.

    "They want to get rid of her, but they want to get rid of her without affording her the rights of a hearing and disciplinary process," said Mpofu, who is applying for the motion of no confidence to be held by secret ballot.

    "They [the DA] want to get rid of her by manipulating the rules of council," he said.

    However, De Lille is not against Thursday's motion of no confidence, said Mpofu.

    She merely wants the vote on it to be held through a secret ballot so that members can vote "according to their conscience" and not just do what the DA tells them to do. She wants them to be free from reprisal should they not take the usual party caucus line.

    A 'free vote'

    Mpofu is leading the charge in the High Court, a sequel to a similar application to the Constitutional Court last year by the UDM and supported by the DA, for a motion of no confidence against President Jacob Zuma to be held by secret ballot.

    In that case, the court said it could not tell National Assembly Speaker Baleka Mbete what to do, but confirmed that she did have the right to decide whether to hold a secret ballot vote or not.

    Mpofu said the DA had since indicated that it was not opposed to DA councillors voting freely, instead of as instructed by their caucus, but the party did not see the point of holding the vote in secret.

    Mpofu said it was also not clear whether the party's new stance – that councillors could vote freely – had been communicated to the DA councillors.

    He said the councillors had no obligation to vote according to what the DA told them, because their oath of office is to serve the public, not the party.

    He argued that if the party did agree to a "free vote", this was "by definition" a secret vote.

    'Why are we here?'

    Mpofu said that to make councillors vote openly on such a sensitive matter was "suicide" for the councillors concerned.

    However, Judge Robert Henney cut in and asked why they were all in court if the DA had decided to let its councillors have a "free vote" instead of following the party line.

    Mpofu said the problem was that the party had already said it did not think that a secret vote was necessary, so even suggesting one in council ahead of the motion of no confidence could be a risk to a councillor's position.

    The court adjourned for lunch, and for counsel to discuss among themselves whether there still was a dispute.

    News24
    https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...mpofu-20180213
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    Cape Town – The DA is using a motion of no confidence against Cape Town Mayor Patricia de Lille to avoid holding disciplinary proceedings against her, Advocate Dali Mpofu SC told the Western Cape High Court on Tuesday.

    "They want to get rid of her, but they want to get rid of her without affording her the rights of a hearing and disciplinary process," said Mpofu, who is applying for the motion of no confidence to be held by secret ballot.
    That is very clear, exactly what they are doing.
    I am of a nation that would not allow that fear of death, of torture, of imprisonment, of exile or persecution should result in the perpetuation of injustice.

  6. #81
    Super Grandmaster theratman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xrapidx View Post
    Which part isn't clear? Your fix is exactly the same with with the ANC and Zuma.
    Pretty much the same as the ANC. Some want De Lille / Zuma out others don't. Doesn't matter about the crimes / alleged crimes but the methodology being used.
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    Super Grandmaster xrapidx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theratman View Post
    Pretty much the same as the ANC. Some want De Lille / Zuma out others don't. Doesn't matter about the crimes / alleged crimes but the methodology being used.
    Careful now - you don't want to go pretending you understood what I was saying

  8. #83
    Super Grandmaster theratman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xrapidx View Post
    Careful now - you don't want to go pretending you understood what I was saying
    I'm not pretending as I know exactly what you were saying agree with it too.
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    Grand Master of the Friendzone Chris_the_Brit's Avatar
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    JUDGMENT RESERVED IN DE LILLE'S BID FOR SECRET BALLOT IN CONFIDENCE MOTION

    CAPE TOWN - The Western Cape High Court has reserved judgment in Cape Town Mayor Patricia de Lille’s application to force a secret ballot in a vote of no confidence in her.

    De Lille brought the action because she feared council members will be intimated by Democratic Alliance (DA) structures when the party’s motion is debated on Thursday.

    The mayor says she’s willing to step down if that is the wish of the city caucus.

    “I want to make sure that when councillors exercise their rights to vote, they do so without fear of intimidation because there’s been a lot of intimidation.”
    Eminently posh.

  10. #85
    Grand Master of the Friendzone Chris_the_Brit's Avatar
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    De Lille loses bid to force a secret ballot

    #DeLille The Western Cape High Court has ruled the Speaker of the City of Cape Town Council should decide how a vote of no confidence in Mayor Patricia de Lille plays out. KB
    https://twitter.com/ewnreporter/stat...74893811798017
    Eminently posh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_the_Brit View Post
    De Lille loses bid to force a secret ballot
    https://twitter.com/ewnreporter/stat...74893811798017
    Which is exactly what the constitutional court said, De Lille could have predicted this. The court just says it can be done, but it is up to the speaker.
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    Oh look, De Lille throwing a hissy fit... . Does she not know how to read court judgements?

    #DeLille Smit, a secret ballot is not necessary for councillors to to vote with their conscience - an open ballot will better serve. KB
    #DeLille intervenes saying the Speaker’s decision is unlawful, says she wants to take his decision on review - asks Smit to postpone until 14:00/15:00 this afternoon. KB
    Mayor Patricia de Lille has left special council meeting meant for a vote of no confidence against her. She says its an unlawful sitting after speaker ruled that it would be an open ballot. She says she is now going to court #DeLille #SABCWC
    Eminently posh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_the_Brit View Post
    Oh look, De Lille throwing a hissy fit... . Does she not know how to read court judgements?
    Well the DA did go into court saying they were not opposed to a secret ballot, which could be viewed as a deception I suppose. At this point she just needs to get it over with though, imo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_the_Brit View Post
    Oh look, De Lille throwing a hissy fit... . Does she not know how to read court judgements?


    can't wait to see the back of this snake as well
    none so blind as those who refuse to see

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    Super Grandmaster xrapidx's Avatar
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    I take it they can go on without her?

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