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Thread: IAAF new ruling will affect Caster

  1. #61
    Verboten Pitbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4Cat View Post
    You should always provide a source when making factual claims Pitbull, that's a given, not just for me specifically. So basically they want to handicap a competitor who is naturally stronger to make it apparently more 'fair' for the others. Sure...
    I don't suck these things out my arse...

    Unfortunately I have good memory. I can read something and it only comes up again months later and it makes it hard to find either the source, or recall it to 100% accuracy but it's still valid. I find it annoying to be asked to back it up when we all have access to google and I have to take time to go find it. Just glad you are satisfied now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4Cat View Post
    It only applies to events she competes in, despite the findings showing the biggest differences occur in other events. How does that make sense?
    I have already pointed out why...

    The advantage is amplified by distance due to the advantages testosterone provides.
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    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...s-testosterone

    Caster Semenya and the IAAF: if the science is wrong, the ruling is wrong

    The case is complex but demanding some female athletes lower their testosterone levels was a big call, yet seems to be a debatable conclusion to reach based on a questionable study

    Before we begin to address the critiques of their motives, to wrangle with the complicated questions about the ethics of fairness, the IAAF has to prove the science supports its case this time. And, judging by what is publicly available, it can’t.

    Last year the IAAF released a key study, which found that female athletes with higher levels of testosterone had an advantage in five events, the 400m, 400m hurdles, 800m, hammer throw, and pole vault. And that study, which underpins these new regulations, now looks deeply flawed. Andrew Gelman, Higgins professor of statistics at Columbia University, described the analysis as “such a mess that I can’t really figure out what data they are working with, what exactly they are doing, or the connection between some of their analyses and their scientific goals”.

    Gelman is a rare voice in all this, one without any emotional investment, or even an interest in the sport. His only concern is the work. And he found it lacking. The IAAF says that this was only one paper, and that its case is bolstered by a body of confidential data. But still, after 15 years of study, its very best public evidence was debunked within weeks of its release

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    Verboten Pitbull's Avatar
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    Nothing wrong with the science, I can agree that it might be flawed, but wasn't that the reason they withdrew the initial changes back in 2015 or something.

    There is no question that higher levels of Testosterone does affect humans' ability to build more/bigger muscle, which aids in strength and endurance. There is zero questioning that.
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    Super Grandmaster Cray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitbull View Post
    Nothing wrong with the science, I can agree that it might be flawed, but wasn't that the reason they withdrew the initial changes back in 2015 or something.
    Yup, they them withdrew because they didn't have a scientific basis for the decision, after three years they have now come up with one other study which is seriously flawed. It's almost like they want the changes to be challenged...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cray View Post
    Yup, they them withdrew because they didn't have a scientific basis for the decision, after three years they have now come up with one other study which is seriously flawed. It's almost like they want the changes to be challenged...
    I think they are trying too hard tbh. It's simple, it's your organization, put the ground rules down and those who don't follow it can GFT. Testosterone does give an advantage, obviously the more you have the bigger the advantage. We have dope testing being done. Just make the rules, and if people fall above your level given, they are stripped of their title or medal. Simple.

    They don't have to please the masses.
    Last edited by Pitbull; 04-05-2018 at 02:11 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitbull View Post
    I have already pointed out why...

    The advantage is amplified by distance due to the advantages testosterone provides.
    I don't know what you mean by the advantage being 'amplified by distance'. The study on which this ruling was based found that the biggest performance differences were between female competitors with high and low T in the pole vault and hammer throw—two events that the IAAF decided not to regulate, while in the events Caster runs in, it found that women with the highest levels of testosterone performed only slightly better (1.78 percent to 2.73 percent) than those who were in the “normal” range.
    https://www.wired.com/story/testoste...tural-ability/

    So once again, why does it only apply to events she competes in, despite the findings showing the biggest differences occur in other events (pole vault and hammer throw). How does that make sense?
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4Cat View Post
    I don't know what you mean by the advantage being 'amplified by distance'. The study on which this ruling was based found that the biggest performance differences were between female competitors with high and low T in the pole vault and hammer throw—two events that the IAAF decided not to regulate, while in the events Caster runs in, it found that women with the highest levels of testosterone performed only slightly better (1.78 percent to 2.73 percent) than those who were in the “normal” range.
    https://www.wired.com/story/testoste...tural-ability/

    So once again, why does it only apply to events she competes in, despite the findings showing the biggest differences occur in other events (pole vault and hammer throw). How does that make sense?
    Again, read my post above.

    just like Cray I believe the "studies" they are submitting is either to have it appealed and overturned so they can tell the other athletes - We tried. Or they are just trying to justify to the masses why they want to implement these changes.

    I have said, Testosterone gives: More/Bigger muscle which in turn helps with endurance and strength. That is a FACT! you can try and disprove that all you want.

    It's applied to her only? It's applied to everyone in those events, what's the problem? I would assume that with current athletes should they implement it in the other sections now, there would be no participants. Have you seen those women in hammer throw? Pole vault, I can't say I have seen someone with a Testosterone advantage or to such an extent as Caster has.
    Last edited by Pitbull; 04-05-2018 at 02:30 PM.
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