Emissions exclusion at Kusile could bring units back online a year earlier — Eskom

[Grieta Thanburg]

No doubt. The fact this is not basically taken for granted is pretty disturbing. Choosing to remain in an energy crisis because of worries about air pollution is... not good.

The way I see it is, the ANC is using SOD to bypass this and whatever else they want, taking shortcuts for a mess they made to cover their own asses for next year's election. This is not about the people. It's about the ANC saving themselves.

The peeps here know that once the unit is running as it should, they won't actually go back and correct it, and it will be just another middle finger to the voters.

 

[DapperDanMan]

The way I see it is ...

We already know your side, Grieta ...

 

[Grieta Thanburg]

We already know your side, Grieta ...

Today you're speaking to Africa Greta

 

[Tomtomtom]

The way I see it is, the ANC is using SOD to bypass this and whatever else they want, taking shortcuts for a mess they made to cover their own asses for next year's election. This is not about the people. It's about the ANC saving themselves.

The peeps here know that once the unit is running as it should, they won't actually go back and correct it, and it will be just another middle finger to the voters.

The only middle finger most voters care about is the one where we're in darkness because we're trying to meet some imported emissions standard.

See the forest for the trees. Nothing's going to change the fact that SA is massively coal dependent for the foreseeable future. If we don't burn it ourselves we'll have to export it to someone who does in order to have the forex to buy batteries to go with our solar plants.

The FGD thing is basically a small PR concession to our European funders.

Whether it ever goes back online or not it's a drop in the ocean of emissions, and to forego 2000 MW over it even for a short time is insane.

 

[AlphaJohn]

Finland is spouting BS - it's referred to as "sales talk". Everytime those Western propagandists gather at COP, they refer to China as the biggest polluter.
Look what happend to their "Green agenda" when they committed energy suicide by sanctioning Russia - back to starting up their coal-fired and nuclear power stations.
We are a sovereign country and should stop allowing the collective West control us.

Except in 2019 Eskom was doing more than US & EU Combined and way more than China:

Source

Then again there is also this counter argument:

 

[ToxicBunny]

The only middle finger most voters care about is the one where we're in darkness because we're trying to meet some imported emissions standard.

You got to see the forest here. Nothing's going to change the fact that SA is massively coal dependent for the foreseeable future. If we don't burn it ourselves we'll have to export it to someone who does in order to have the forex to buy batteries to go with our solar plants.

The FGD thing is basically a small PR concession to our European funders.

Whether it ever goes back online or not it's a drop in the ocean of emissions, and to forego 2000 MW over it even for a short time is insane.

You are somewhat aware that the FGD makes a difference to the number of people who die around the power stations hey? Eskom is a massive polluter, and the areas around the power stations have a hugely increased death and sickness rates due to this.

 

[Tomtomtom]

You are somewhat aware that the FGD makes a difference to the number of people who die around the power stations hey? Eskom is a massive polluter, and the areas around the power stations have a hugely increased death and sickness rates due to this.

Do you know how many people being short 2000 MW kills?

And they need a passport and plane ticket to improve matters, not just a move to another town.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Do you know how many people being short 2000 MW kills?

Directly... 0.

 

[Tomtomtom]

Directly... 0.

So what? Do only direct deaths matter? The indirect ones are unseen, uncertain, so we can pretend they're not real?

It's the direct deaths I'm less concerned about because they're obvious and we can get a grip on them. Create an exclusion zone, relocate people, subsidise air purifiers, whatever...

But being short 2000 MW kills people via all sorts of indirect pathways, it stunts development and reverberates into the future, ruining lives that haven't even begun yet.

We need energy to fix our problems, including our SO2-related health issues.

Otherwise we're cutting our nose to spite our face.

I find it weird this isn't obvious. Look at 18th-century Europe. If they'd decided burning coal was just going to be too much for their lungs, our kids would all still be dying of dysentery.

Of course the fact they did suffer through it is also why we can afford now to pull the ladder up, move to Sweden and set emissions targets for Africa.

 

[ToxicBunny]

So what? Do only direct deaths matter? The indirect ones are unseen, uncertain, so we can pretend they're not real?

It's the direct deaths I'm less concerned about because they're obvious and we can get a grip on them. Create an exclusion zone, relocate people, subsidise air purifiers, whatever...

But being short 2000 MW kills people via all sorts of indirect pathways, it stunts development and reverberates into the future, ruining lives that haven't even begun yet.

We need energy to fix our problems, including our SO2-related health issues.

Otherwise we're cutting our nose to spite our face.

I find it weird this isn't obvious. Look at 18th-century Europe. If they'd decided burning coal was just going to be too much for their lungs, our kids would all still be dying of dysentery.

Of course the fact they did suffer through it is also why we can afford now to pull the ladder up, move to Sweden and set emissions targets for Africa.

So you want to basically de-populate Limpopo.

And what do you think the FGD is other than a massive fscking air purifier?

By going with the short cut to solve the 2000MW deficit, you're just going to **** more people over for longer... you are worrying about the right now, when the death toll in relation to not doing it right will dwarf the death toll of waiting a bit longer to do it right.

 

[porchrat]

So you want to basically de-populate Limpopo.

And what do you think the FGD is other than a massive fscking air purifier?

By going with the short cut to solve the 2000MW deficit, you're just going to **** more people over for longer... you are worrying about the right now, when the death toll in relation to not doing it right will dwarf the death toll of waiting a bit longer to do it right.

My understanding is that they want to bypass the purification system temporarily for 1 year while they rebuild that mess they caused.

Depends on the health impacts for that year I suppose.

Also, assuming the health impacts are minimal if it's just for that 1 year, the deal needs to stipulate it only happens for 1 year and after that, if the new flue and chimney structure is not yet constructed (which will probably be the case due to corruption and ineptitude) simply switch off those units. This temporary bypass cannot be allowed to become the norm for this power station as Eskom fails to do something as simple as build a fscking chimney.

 

[Tomtomtom]

By going with the short cut to solve the 2000MW deficit, you're just going to **** more people over for longer... you are worrying about the right now, when the death toll in relation to not doing it right will dwarf the death toll of waiting a bit longer to do it right.

I disagree - I am worrying about the future. Not having energy right now cripples us, and that has long-term effects that dwarf immediate pollution issues.

Again, you should ask what people in the 18th century were doing in Europe.

Were they wrong to burn coal and destroy their air quality?

Should they have stuck with burning peat and wood? Or should they have stayed in the stone age rather?

 

[ToxicBunny]

My understanding is that they want to bypass the purification system temporarily for 1 year while they rebuild that mess they caused.

Depends on the health impacts for that year I suppose.

Also, assuming the health impacts are minimal if it's just for that 1 year, the deal needs to stipulate it only happens for 1 year and after that, if the new flu is not yet constructed simply switch off those units. This temporary bypass cannot be allowed to become the norm for this power station as Eskom fails to do something as simple as build a fscking chimney.

My only concern is that we know how this will play out... They'll get the exemption and that system will then never be completed or reconnected, because it will involve taking the 2000MW offline for an extended period of time and all that.

If we could be 100% sure that its just for 1 year, then hells yes go for it and get the stuff back online, but balance of probability and the history of the way the ANC will fsck this up, it will be for way way longer than 1 year.

 

[Tomtomtom]

My only concern is that we know how this will play out... They'll get the exemption and that system will then never be completed or reconnected, because it will involve taking the 2000MW offline for an extended period of time and all that.

If we could be 100% sure that its just for 1 year, then hells yes go for it and get the stuff back online, but balance of probability and the history of the way the ANC will fsck this up, it will be for way way longer than 1 year.

So let's teach ourselves a lesson and stay in the dark until the ANC is voted out.

 

[Neptuner]

2021's stats yeah right. I'm sure the emissions in EU has further reduced with all the coal they buying, such saints buying our coal and throwing it into the Atlantic ocean.

 

[porchrat]

My only concern is that we know how this will play out... They'll get the exemption and that system will then never be completed or reconnected, because it will involve taking the 2000MW offline for an extended period of time and all that.

If we could be 100% sure that its just for 1 year, then hells yes go for it and get the stuff back online, but balance of probability and the history of the way the ANC will fsck this up, it will be for way way longer than 1 year.

Yea if it's going to be permanent it can't be allowed. An indefinite 8x increase in emissions is going to wreak havoc.

Only way I'd support something like this is if it was hard locked to 1 year and nobody could weasel out of that commitment.

 

[ToxicBunny]

So let's teach ourselves a lesson and stay in the dark until the ANC is voted out.

Each to their own....

I'm not in favour of giving the ANC rope to cut corners any further, and we all know that they will cut all the corners possible if given the chance.

 

[Tomtomtom]

Each to their own....

I'm not in favour of giving the ANC rope to cut corners any further, and we all know that they will cut all the corners possible if given the chance.

What is loadshedding if not one giant corner cut?

It's really pretty amusing that people are sitting around in the darkness wagging their fingers making the perfect the enemy of the good.

I'm sure the ANC will be along shortly to make some really binding promises that it'll only take a year, and then it'll all be good, I guess.

 

[ToxicBunny]

What is loadshedding if not one giant corner cut?

It's really pretty amusing that people are sitting around in the darkness wagging their fingers making the perfect the enemy of the good.

I'm sure the ANC will be along shortly to make some really binding promises that it'll only take a year, and then it'll all be good, I guess.

I very much doubt we'll ever see eye to eye on this.

I fully agree we need to end Loadshedding as fast as possible, but it must not be done in a way that requires "exemptions" to very appropriate regulations/legislation.

So we give them an exemption on this FGD thing, then the next one is some other exemption for some other "small" thing and so it goes on.... at the end of the day you end up with a power grid that is "running" but is so compromised that it will fall apart at the slightest breeze.

 

[AlphaJohn]

2021's stats yeah right. I'm sure the emissions in EU has further reduced with all the coal they buying, such saints buying our coal and throwing it into the Atlantic ocean.

We not talking about volume, but clarity/quality.

EU, US and China for that part dont just pump loads of sulfur dioxide into the air. <-- there in lies the diff.

I mean back in 2019 Germany almost did double our numbers using coal alone, never mind the other sources

In SA we can only dream of the 57GW's they get from wind alone.