Russo-Ukrainian War - 2022 Edition - Part 8

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tetrasect said:
It's not your observation of it, it's the language you use that makes it seem as if what Russia is doing is somehow righteous.

Instead of saying "Russia is disregarding internationally agreed upon rules and attacking Ukraine for resources and territorial gain (which was last done by Hitler)." you say "Russia is fighting US hegemony to shift the world from a unilateral to a multi-polar order."

You're dressing a crime up as virtuous act. And it's shameful.
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Just to add my 2c here, to agree and expand on what you said.

It's not as though non-Western countries aren't allowed to have beef with the West. Ukraine has (IMO) done some stupid things politically over the last few years. I should know because I have Ukrainian family members. Russia is more than welcome to object to some of these things.

But invading a sovereign neighbour under false pretexts of threats (there were none), and committing crimes against humanity (rapes, torture, executions, abduction of children) is just flat out wrong. There's no justification at all for any of it.
 
Grant said:
The cracks are showing.

Next up: plead with China to urge an end to sanctions
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He's already begging China.

Just look how close he is sitting to them. For Putin this is akin to being on his knees.

Putin-China-Russia-Chairman-Warsaw-Institute.jpg


For reference, this is how he normally sits at that table:

thumbs_b_c_a6a6250f069b92bcc654325d77c7d661.jpg
 
tetrasect said:
He's already begging China.

Just look how close he is sitting to them. For Putin this is akin to being on his knees.

Putin-China-Russia-Chairman-Warsaw-Institute.jpg


For reference, this is how he normally sits at that table:

thumbs_b_c_a6a6250f069b92bcc654325d77c7d661.jpg
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China is in a strange position at this stage. Putin will find (I think) that they're not as helpful an ally as he might need.

Xi is in the same position that Putin is in, that he's surrounded himself with yes-men who are too afraid to tell him the truth if he might not like it. So who knows what he'll actually do.

But it would be dumb, dumb, dumb for China to cross the US at this stage. China needs the US as a market for all its exports much more than the US needs China. Sure, sanctions would cause American consumers some pain, but they'd stabilise. But China can't afford more sanctions on top of the trade-war tarrifs (which Trump imposed but Biden has only strengthened, not rolled back at all).

COVID is going to rip through China, and their aging population is going to be a huge problem for them in the next 10 years or so. They can't afford a war, and I'm sure the Russians making nonsense is not helping them at all.
 
newby_investor said:
Just to add my 2c here, to agree and expand on what you said.

It's not as though non-Western countries aren't allowed to have beef with the West. Ukraine has (IMO) done some stupid things politically over the last few years. I should know because I have Ukrainian family members. Russia is more than welcome to object to some of these things.

But invading a sovereign neighbour under false pretexts of threats (there were none), and committing crimes against humanity (rapes, torture, executions, abduction of children) is just flat out wrong. There's no justification at all for any of it.
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Well said, one of the narratives we keep hearing is that because we support Ukraine in this conflict, we suddenly think that they and the US are perfect countries with no issues of their own. Both Ukraine and the US have done sketchy stuff in the past, but that really isn't relavent in terms of the current conflict which has one country that is very clearly in the wrong and the cause of all of this.
 
Cray said:
Well said, one of the narratives we keep hearing is that because we support Ukraine in this conflict, we suddenly think that they and the US are perfect countries with no issues of their own. Both Ukraine and the US have done sketchy stuff in the past, but that really isn't relative in terms of the current conflict which has one country, very clearly in the wrong and the cause of all of this.
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I mean "support" is a loaded word in this case.

If you were walking in the street and you saw someone beating the **** out of a politician that you disagreed with because of something that he / she said in parliament, and you intervened to stop the violence, are you supporting that politician now all of a sudden?

I don't disagree with the thrust of your argument, and while I generally consider myself a supporter of Ukraine (I've lived there for a bit, I loved it. Apart from the weather.), I'm under no illusions that there are no negative aspects as well.

But there are clear wrongs being perpretated. Let's stop those from happening, then we can talk about the politics afterwards when there aren't civilians being bombed.
 
Hundreds of Ukrops yeeted to mother Gaia yesterday, but still no tanks.

I see they're STILL trying to stockpile tanks.
 
newby_investor said:
Just to add my 2c here, to agree and expand on what you said.

It's not as though non-Western countries aren't allowed to have beef with the West. Ukraine has (IMO) done some stupid things politically over the last few years. I should know because I have Ukrainian family members. Russia is more than welcome to object to some of these things.

But invading a sovereign neighbour under false pretexts of threats (there were none), and committing crimes against humanity (rapes, torture, executions, abduction of children) is just flat out wrong. There's no justification at all for any of it.
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That's the 2million ton elephant in the room for Russia. There's just no way around it.
 
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Russia's Medvedev says arms supplies to Kyiv threaten global nuclear catastrophe

www.reuters.com

Russia's Medvedev says arms supplies to Kyiv threaten global nuclear catastrophe

Russia's former president and an ally of President Vladimir Putin said in remarks published on Monday that the West's continued supply of arms to Kyiv risked a global nuclear catastrophe, reiterating his threat of nuclear war over Ukraine.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 
Matata said:
Russia's Medvedev says arms supplies to Kyiv threaten global nuclear catastrophe

www.reuters.com

Russia's Medvedev says arms supplies to Kyiv threaten global nuclear catastrophe

Russia's former president and an ally of President Vladimir Putin said in remarks published on Monday that the West's continued supply of arms to Kyiv risked a global nuclear catastrophe, reiterating his threat of nuclear war over Ukraine.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
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Medvedev always playing bad cop.
Both the US and China WILL invade Russia if Russia brings nukes in play.
 
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