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Controversial question for the older guys - do you wish Apartheid had continued?
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s0lar
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Nope, the ANC is responsible for this mess.
JuliusSeizure
Executive Member
They created a mess which was inequality and had it not been for their savegery, the ANC would not be in power as long as they have.
Let's not act like history only started in 1994 and everything before that is null and void.
Velskoen
Expert Member
I look around me and I see the total collapse of society, civilised norms, infrastructure that makes my life civilised. I see corruption, criminality, lies, ineptitude, thieving, barbarism, looting and vandalism on an industrial scale. I see the almost total collapse of world renowned conservation initiatives, the destruction of game reserves and national parks. I see tax money being diverted away from old age care, SPCA, Hospice, orphanages, hospitals, terminal patient care, mental health. So that some fat cat communist SOB can drive a Bentley, wear pointy leather shoes and drink 25 year old whiskey.
I see the pollution of practically every natural water body in the country where it is now life threatening to drink water from a stream or river. I look at murder stats that exceed the death toll in Ukraine, a country at war. I weep at the rape and child abuse figures, human trafficking. I note that neither policing, investigation, nor justice system works any longer. I see open borders where people from Africa come and go at will. Their cattle graze across the Limpopo river, destroying phytosanitary and disease-free standards – built up and maintained against all odds over decades.
I see the collapse of world class industries such as mining, nuclear, heavy engineering, civil engineering, irrigation, animal husbandry, veterinary, vaccine development, steel manufacturing, advanced medicine and surgery and others.
I look at the hundreds of hopeless people on pavements and at robots across the country.
What I see is the total destruction of a civilised country. I note that South Africa in 2023 is not unique. It has been preceded by every African country. And I look which race is largely responsible for this destruction vs which race was responsible for building a First World country here at the tip of Africa.
And I know where I fit in and where I would rather be. Racist? Decide for yourself. Realist? As in I see what I see, plain as daylight for all who have eyes to see.
I see the pollution of practically every natural water body in the country where it is now life threatening to drink water from a stream or river. I look at murder stats that exceed the death toll in Ukraine, a country at war. I weep at the rape and child abuse figures, human trafficking. I note that neither policing, investigation, nor justice system works any longer. I see open borders where people from Africa come and go at will. Their cattle graze across the Limpopo river, destroying phytosanitary and disease-free standards – built up and maintained against all odds over decades.
I see the collapse of world class industries such as mining, nuclear, heavy engineering, civil engineering, irrigation, animal husbandry, veterinary, vaccine development, steel manufacturing, advanced medicine and surgery and others.
I look at the hundreds of hopeless people on pavements and at robots across the country.
What I see is the total destruction of a civilised country. I note that South Africa in 2023 is not unique. It has been preceded by every African country. And I look which race is largely responsible for this destruction vs which race was responsible for building a First World country here at the tip of Africa.
And I know where I fit in and where I would rather be. Racist? Decide for yourself. Realist? As in I see what I see, plain as daylight for all who have eyes to see.
s0lar
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Its been years, the ANC had the cards stacked in their favour but here we are..
They should shoulder the outcomes of their choices.
Its like buying and owning a house for 30 years and blaming the bad plumbing on the previous owners. Spineless.
Tabac
Honorary Master
Agee.
Tabac
Honorary Master
How old are you ? Just to get where you coming from.
now05ster
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That is a statement based on the incorrect assumption that there where no white people(who would have been part of the "10%" who inevitably benefited) that opposed Apartheid.
Edit: damn 30% grammar. Let's hope it's correctly edited.
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porchrat
Honorary Master
No idea. I didn't live through that time period.
I think considering so many other countries only went through their revolutions around race a couple of decades earlier (America for example only had the civil rights movement starting in the 50s through to the late 60s), I'd say our society was slower to evolve.
None of which is relevant to the current situation, where folks clearly aren't educated enough to make informed decisions when voting. If they were the ANC would not hold power.
Tabac
Honorary Master
Doing a needs analysis this is what it boils down to - But beware the person who points out the facts.
porchrat
Honorary Master
Horse schit.
The NP was responsible for the human rights abuses and such up until 94. The decline since then is the fault of the ANC. Don't absolve these corrupt morons of responsibility. They're not children. They're adults who know full well what they're doing to this country. They could have led in a way that improved this country. Instead they chose to steal. That lack of moral fortitude is on their heads.
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Mike Hoxbig
Honorary Master
The difference with America is the suppressed was the minority.
It's going to take us a lot longer to get out of this, especially when you have greedy fscks in charge of it with no will or motivation to do so. We're probably not going to see it within our lifetime...
AstroTurf
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The NP were very afraid of the Communist threat (and rightly so as Ukraine shows us this minute).
The main reason the end of Apartheid took so long was not "die swart gevaar" it was "die rooi gavaar"
When the USSR toppled the NP ended apartheid.
They were getting pressure from across the planet to do so and the ANC that were basically the hot chick sitting on the bonnet of the fancy new car called the New South Africa were more a figurehead and terrorist organisation than anything else.
Did the fall of the Berlin Wall help end Apartheid?
The collapse of the Soviet Union helped topple Apartheid by removing the global threat of Communism, the country's last white president told CNBC.
porchrat
Honorary Master
The question was how could people keep voting for a government that was oppressing people based on the colour of their skin. Whether that oppressed group was a majority vs. minority is largely irrelevant there.
The fact remains that when Apartheid ended many Western countries had only recently woken up to the idea that people shouldn't be judged on their skin tone. In that light it's easy to understand why the Apartheid system was allowed to persist. Society just hadn't evolved far enough yet to reach the realisation that it was wrong.
We're not getting out of this at the moment. We're declining needlessly. We're going in the opposite direction. We could have been out of it already if a group with a moral compass and genuine concern for the people of the country had taken power in 94. We had all the right ingredients for an incredible country. Skills in the workforce, unbelievable mineral wealth, a decent sized workforce, large amounts of land etc. etc.
There is a whole generation of people born under an ANC government that are now adults trying to make a living in this pathetic economy. The opportunity to improve their lives when they were just starting out has been squandered to the point where they're largely a lost generation now. That's truly sad.
porchrat
Honorary Master
You're probably right. It's part of it.The NP were very afraid of the Communist threat (and rightly so as Ukraine shows us this minute).
The main reason the end of Apartheid took so long was not "die swart gevaar" it was "die rooi gavaar"
When the USSR toppled the NP ended apartheid.
They were getting pressure from across the planet to do so and the ANC that were basically the hot chick sitting on the bonnet of the fancy new car called the New South Africa were more a figurehead and terrorist organisation than anything else.
Did the fall of the Berlin Wall help end Apartheid?
The collapse of the Soviet Union helped topple Apartheid by removing the global threat of Communism, the country's last white president told CNBC.www.cnbc.com
The reason the system started in the first place though was not because of communism. It was a society not developed enough sociologically to realise that all people should be judged as individuals.
Tabac
Honorary Master
That's what gets me. It's sad.
AstroTurf
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I agree 100% and that is exactly why the ANC, EFF, RET, EWC, BEE, BBEEE, AA and their ilk all make me feel offended to the bone and abhorrently sick.
It is truly repulsive how a populist party can rape an entire country and change the very meaning of equality then have the victims say please and than you the next morning while wiping the blood off with the soiled sheets.
Mike Hoxbig
Honorary Master
Some of the ideas around BBEEE and AA are fine.
In the absence of a transition period, you need a mechanism to balance the scales, this was it but it's been abused because the loopholes weren't closed.
You can't just say ok cool you have equal rights now, and then expect people who were oppressed for 50 years to get smart overnight and magically catch up on their development. The only ones who were in a position to do this are those who got into power...
shooter69
Expert Member
My whole problem with this "Apartheid" card thing is that I am too young to remember it(almost 40) and had no part in apartheid, yet because I'm white I am supposed to feel guilty or something and get punished with BEE kak? ****off.
No, I did not grow up rich. I had a pretty poor upbringing. Did not get to go study. Did not get free handouts or jobs because of my skin color. I will not inherit anything when my parents die. So why are we still on about Apartheid? A lot of us did not benefit from it at all. Get over this ****. Most middle-aged and younger people had nothing to do with Apartheid and are not benefiting from it.
It's old people, it's very gullible people (eff supporters I'm talking to you), it's the laziest South Africans and it's those that benefit form fear-mongering in South Africa that dream about the idea of Apartheid.
It's been over for almost 30 years. Get over it!
No, I did not grow up rich. I had a pretty poor upbringing. Did not get to go study. Did not get free handouts or jobs because of my skin color. I will not inherit anything when my parents die. So why are we still on about Apartheid? A lot of us did not benefit from it at all. Get over this ****. Most middle-aged and younger people had nothing to do with Apartheid and are not benefiting from it.
It's old people, it's very gullible people (eff supporters I'm talking to you), it's the laziest South Africans and it's those that benefit form fear-mongering in South Africa that dream about the idea of Apartheid.
It's been over for almost 30 years. Get over it!