Russo-Ukrainian War - 2022 Edition - Part 8

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rietrot said:
Just one factual error. So far they are letting Ukraine keep access to Oddessa. They don't seem to have a problem with sharing that coastline.
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You forget a few months ago how hard Russia was pushing to get towards Odessa. They couldn't get past Mikolayiv.

It's not magnanimity allowing Ukraine to keep Odessa. It's Russia's failure to take it so far.
rietrot said:
Yeah thats like giving a suicidal person a lift the the nearest bridge and encouraging them to jump.

Not something I consider morally responsible.
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This isn't a good-faith comparison. Ukraine isn't suicidal, it's under attack.

It's like giving someone who is being assaulted, a weapon with which to defend themselves.

rietrot said:
The Hitler nonsense is nonsense.
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Except it isn't. Show me one example in history of when a conqueror was satisfied with what they'd accomplished and then went home to relax.

FOR SURE Russia's plan was to go for some of the other former Warsaw Pact states next. Lukashenko was even so dumb as to leak the intention to invade Moldova next, much earlier on in the war, and they're busy talking up causing nonsense in Transnistra (sp?) on Russian TV at the moment.

For much of Europe, warning bells are ringing, and they haven't forgotten what happened with the last tyrant that they tried to appease.
 
sefeddt said:
Strange how many pro Russians believe Russian BS that Ukrainians will accept Russia as their master. The amount of policing and draconian methods needed to keep them in check is huge, Kherson been an example. The Romans found out the hard way, where although they initially held territory, they eventually were defeated due to partisan fighting back.
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Nobody claimed Ukrainians will accept Russia as their master. Everyone knows they won't even Russia.
 
newby_investor said:
You forget a few months ago how hard Russia was pushing to get towards Odessa. They couldn't get past Mikolayiv.

It's not magnanimity allowing Ukraine to keep Odessa. It's Russia's failure to take it so far.


This isn't a good-faith comparison. Ukraine isn't suicidal, it's under attack.

It's like giving someone who is being assaulted, a weapon with which to defend themselves.


Except it isn't. Show me one example in history of when a conqueror was satisfied with what they'd accomplished and then went home to relax.

FOR SURE Russia's plan was to go for some of the other former Warsaw Pact states next. Lukashenko was even so dumb as to leak the intention to invade Moldova next, much earlier on in the war, and they're busy talking up causing nonsense in Transnistra (sp?) on Russian TV at the moment.

For much of Europe, warning bells are ringing, and they haven't forgotten what happened with the last tyrant that they tried to appease.
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The alternative view is that Russia learned from the soviet union and do not wish to rule over non Russians as that is too much trouble.
 
HideInLight said:
So much for the referendum bullshit.
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They only hold referendums in areas where people identify as Russian.

That areas are now Russian and the people view themselves as such.

This cannot work in western Ukraine or the rest of Europe. Everyone including the Russian know this

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com www.zerohedge.com

Same thing as this.
 
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rietrot said:
They only hold referendums in areas where people identify as Russian.

That areas are now Russian and the people view themselves as such.

This cannot work in western Ukraine or the rest of Europe. Everyone including the Russian know this

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com www.zerohedge.com

Same thing as this.
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That would include Kherson would it, where Russia claimed the majority of residents wanted to join Russia. When the invaders first occupied Kherson there were huge demonstrations against the invaders, no where was there crowds supporting Russia. When Kherson was retaken the UAF were welcomed as heroes.
 
rietrot said:
Nobody claimed Ukrainians will accept Russia as their master. Everyone knows they won't even Russia.
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MOSCOW (AP) — Russian President Vladimir Putin says he believes Russians and Ukrainians constitute one nation and that the countries should find a way to integrate.

apnews.com

Putin: Russians, Ukrainians are 'one people'

MOSCOW (AP) — Russian President Vladimir Putin says he believes Russians and Ukrainians constitute one nation and that the countries should find a way to integrate. Putin made the comments in an interview with the American film director Oliver Stone on June 19; material from the interview was...
apnews.com apnews.com
 
ForceFate said:
It's Russia pushing this war. Russian soldiers and mercenaries are kn the wrong side of the border. They pull out, weapons stop flowing into Ukraine. Then they can start negotiating settlements. But we know Russia won't pull out because they want control of the Black sea coastline.

Who's next in their sights?
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When you have such a tiny dick as putin, pulling out is meaningless, he probably doesn't understand the concept.
 
rietrot said:
The alternative view is that Russia learned from the soviet union and do not wish to rule over non Russians as that is too much trouble.
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Even Russia itself is full of non-Russians. There are lots of minorities there, which Russia doesn't seem to be particularly keen to grant independence to.

Anyway. I'm getting too worked up from this so I'm tapping out.
 
newby_investor said:
Even Russia itself is full of non-Russians. There are lots of minorities there, which Russia doesn't seem to be particularly keen to grant independence to.

Anyway. I'm getting too worked up from this so I'm tapping out.
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I'd even hazard a guess its not about being keen to grant independence to, they do oppress them, and use those minorities as cannon fodder.
 
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ForceFate said:
It's Russia pushing this war. Russian soldiers and mercenaries are kn the wrong side of the border. They pull out, weapons stop flowing into Ukraine. Then they can start negotiating settlements. But we know Russia won't pull out because they want control of the Black sea coastline.

Who's next in their sights?
Click to expand...
Poland
 
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