Russo-Ukrainian War - 2022 Edition - Part 8

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buka001 said:
So you can accept that if the Russians are invading and walk up to your door to kidnap your kids, you should fight them?

What is a more effective way that families in Ukraine can be defended, from an invading Russian force?
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What are you talking about? There was no intention to bring any civilian casualties, it was purely a blitzkrieg to seize power, if you watch some videos of the first days, you see how there was no offensive on civilians or infrastructure.


buka001 said:
Why did the UK fight back after Nazi Germany attacked them?

Why didn't they just let them take over the UK? It would have saved lives?
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Because when it comes to a full blown world conflict, you are forced to pick a side.

Cray said:
Would you want to live in a country proxy controlled by Putin's Russia, will all the limits on freedoms that would entail?

I would never presume to tell people that they should or should not risk their lives to defend their country, that is entirely their own choice to make.

Am sure some people have left Ukraine with their families, others clearly think that the best future for their families is in a Ukraine not controlled by Russia. And they are willing to risk their lives to try to make that future real.
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I hear your point and lets look at other examples of proxy controlled countries, like Kazakhstan or Chechnya. From individual point of view there is no limitations imposed on them- you either working on the pipeline that supplies Russia or the West, it doesnt make a difference.
tetrasect said:
Guess you missed my post from yesterday...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1639874768320053248
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Oh yes, the leaked spy documents from unbiased "sunflower" source.
 
Zukat said:
What are you talking about? There was no intention to bring any civilian casualties, it was purely a blitzkrieg to seize power, if you watch some videos of the first days, you see how there was no offensive on civilians or infrastructure.




Because when it comes to a full blown world conflict, you are forced to pick a side.



I hear your point and lets look at other examples of proxy controlled countries, like Kazakhstan or Chechnya. From individual point of view there is no limitations imposed on them- you either working on the pipeline that supplies Russia or the West, it doesnt make a difference.


Oh yes, the leaked spy documents from unbiased "sunflower" source.
Click to expand...
So this video is a military target then?

Source
 
Zukat said:
What are you talking about? There was no intention to bring any civilian casualties, it was purely a blitzkrieg to seize power, if you watch some videos of the first days, you see how there was no offensive on civilians or infrastructure.
Click to expand...

Stop talking nonsense, please.

The second day of the invasion there were verifiable instances of civilians being murdered.

www.hrw.org

Ukraine: Russian Forces Fired On Civilian Vehicles

Russian forces have fired on civilian vehicles in three separate incidents in Ukraine’s Kyiv and Chernihiv regions, killing six civilians and wounding three, Human Rights Watch said today. In one case, they pulled a man from a van and summarily executed him.
www.hrw.org www.hrw.org

www.ohchr.org

UN report details summary executions of civilians by Russian troops in northern Ukraine

UN report details summary executions and attacks on individual civilians by Russian troops in northern Ukraine from February to April
www.ohchr.org www.ohchr.org
 
Zukat said:
What are you talking about? There was no intention to bring any civilian casualties, it was purely a blitzkrieg to seize power, if you watch some videos of the first days, you see how there was no offensive on civilians or infrastructure.




Because when it comes to a full blown world conflict, you are forced to pick a side.



I hear your point and lets look at other examples of proxy controlled countries, like Kazakhstan or Chechnya. From individual point of view there is no limitations imposed on them- you either working on the pipeline that supplies Russia or the West, it doesnt make a difference.


Oh yes, the leaked spy documents from unbiased "sunflower" source.
Click to expand...
Russia has admitted to kidnapping Ukrainian children. They said so in the UN and are holding them as hostages to push for concessions.

Civilians were killed in Bucha in the first month of the invasion.

In the first week of the invasion, a hospital was bombed by the Russians. Various civilian targets were hit by Russian cruise missiles in cities all over Ukraine on the very first day.

Perhaps you missed all of those?
 
buka001 said:
Russia has admitted to kidnapping Ukrainian children. They said so in the UN and are holding them as hostages to push for concessions.

Civilians were killed in Bucha in the first month of the invasion.

In the first week of the invasion, a hospital was bombed by the Russians. Various civilian targets were hit by Russian cruise missiles in cities all over Ukraine on the very first day.

Perhaps you missed all of those?
Click to expand...

But no, Russia said they were being nice...

Just ignore all the rockets/missiles/military men doing dastardly things, they just wanted to peacefully subjugate the country and absorb it into their own.
 
Zukat said:
What are you talking about? There was no intention to bring any civilian casualties, it was purely a blitzkrieg to seize power, if you watch some videos of the first days, you see how there was no offensive on civilians or infrastructure.




Because when it comes to a full blown world conflict, you are forced to pick a side.



I hear your point and lets look at other examples of proxy controlled countries, like Kazakhstan or Chechnya. From individual point of view there is no limitations imposed on them- you either working on the pipeline that supplies Russia or the West, it doesnt make a difference.
Click to expand...
If there are no limitations, then why did Russia attack Ukraine over their desire to join NATO?

Why are they issuing threats to Armenia?
www.reuters.com

Russia warns Armenia against allying with ICC after Putin arrest warrant - RIA

Russia has warned Armenia of "serious consequences" if it submits to the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court (ICC) which has issued an arrest warrant for President Vladimir Putin, the RIA news agency reported on Monday.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com


Zukat said:
Oh yes, the leaked spy documents from unbiased "sunflower" source.
Click to expand...
 
Zukat said:
What are you talking about? There was no intention to bring any civilian casualties, it was purely a blitzkrieg to seize power, if you watch some videos of the first days, you see how there was no offensive on civilians or infrastructure.
Click to expand...
Nobel peace prize winners support Ukraine in their mission to kick Russia out.

www.cbsnews.com

Nobel Peace Prize winners strongly condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine

The triple peace prize award was seen as a strong rebuke to Russian President Vladimir Putin, not only for his action in Ukraine but for the Kremlin's crackdown on domestic opposition.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com
 
Matata said:
So why did the RU MFA Delete their video? :popcorn:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1640633057874006018
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When a report for misinformation succeeds, the twitter account is locked until they delete offending tweet. So it could be because of that also. Normally it takes months before the report is even looked at, but NAFO seems to have had a victory, or Russia decided to take the L, for their disgusting attempt.
Interesting how their UK embassy is going with the muslim angle, while mfa goes for the old Nazi narrative.
It's blatantly clear what they are trying to do, those leaked documents gave away quite a bit of their strategy.

Meanwhile Russia is sorry that their lies and deception wasn't good enough, they promise to put more effort into their lies :rolleyes:
 
Blu82 said:
So this video is a military target then?

Source
Click to expand...

Collateral damage is unfortunate occurrence of any military conflict or you really think that Russia wants to waste rockets on civilian buildings/cyclists? if so, i can't help you.

buka001 said:
Russia has admitted to kidnapping Ukrainian children. They said so in the UN and are holding them as hostages to push for concessions.

Civilians were killed in Bucha in the first month of the invasion.

In the first week of the invasion, a hospital was bombed by the Russians. Various civilian targets were hit by Russian cruise missiles in cities all over Ukraine on the very first day.

Perhaps you missed all of those?
Click to expand...

Apart from hearsay, please share where they "said so"?
ForceFate said:
If there are no limitations, then why did Russia attack Ukraine over their desire to join NATO?

Why are they issuing threats to Armenia?
www.reuters.com

Russia warns Armenia against allying with ICC after Putin arrest warrant - RIA

Russia has warned Armenia of "serious consequences" if it submits to the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court (ICC) which has issued an arrest warrant for President Vladimir Putin, the RIA news agency reported on Monday.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
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Don't take bits and pieces out of my comment. I specifically mentioned at an individual level, obviously every world power is pursuing their political and economic influence.
 
Zukat said:
Collateral damage is unfortunate occurrence of any military conflict or you really think that Russia wants to waste rockets on civilian buildings/cyclists? if so, i can't help you.
Click to expand...
Tying people up and shooting them is collateral damage. ??

www.rferl.org

Bucha Residents Describe 'Systematic' Killings By Russian Troops

Residents of this suburb of Kyiv told RFE/RL they managed to survive the "systematic" killing of the town's population by Russian troops that until recently occupied the area.
www.rferl.org www.rferl.org
 
Zukat said:
Collateral damage is unfortunate occurrence of any military conflict or you really think that Russia wants to waste rockets on civilian buildings/cyclists? if so, i can't help you.



Apart from hearsay, please share where they "said so"?


Don't take bits and pieces out of my comment. I specifically mentioned at an individual level, obviously every world power is pursuing their political and economic influence.
Click to expand...
If that example was isolated maybe but we can post pages and pages of videos of cluster munitions landing in civilian areas with military present.
 
sefeddt said:
Tying people up and shooting them is collateral damage. ??

www.rferl.org

Bucha Residents Describe 'Systematic' Killings By Russian Troops

Residents of this suburb of Kyiv told RFE/RL they managed to survive the "systematic" killing of the town's population by Russian troops that until recently occupied the area.
www.rferl.org www.rferl.org
Click to expand...

We don't have enough information or actually evidence to draw conclusions on Bucha, so I wont comment as propaganda is strong on both sides. Im more looking at it holistically and Putin's narrative for Ukraine.
 
Blu82 said:
If that example was isolated maybe but we can post pages and pages of videos of cluster munitions landing in civilian areas with military present.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, russians don't seem to be the most accurate shooters and it goes back to my first comment why not allow them to take the government over and avoid the casualties and cities being erased to the ground.

Outsiders say Russia/Georgia conflict was pathetic, but millions of people there who still have their families and homes and carry with their lives peacefully would have a different opinion on it.
 
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