Russo-Ukrainian War - 2022 Edition - Part 8

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buka001 said:
Words have meaning.

You can't make up your own definition of "civil war" so you can win an argument.
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Your narrative that just because Russia was involved in agitating for it means it's not a low intensity civil war really needs a rethink.
 
rambo919 said:
So Slav Ukrainians were not shelling the homes of Russian Ukrainians? Does this mean Ukraine was occupying part of Russia?
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I think you will find it was the other way around. And they were aided and abetted by actual Russian soldiers on the ground.
 
Harold_Crick said:
Everything about this war of aggression is ideological for them. At its core is imperialism driven by nationalism; the reuniting/reclaiming of claimed lost territories and the fight against an existential threat to their people. The narrative has been Ukraine and Ukranian identity specifically does not exist. It is land to be reclaimed, people to be saved and others to be ''rewired'' in to being Russian again (schools in occupied territories stamp out Ukranian and Ukrainian history and only teach Russian and Russian history, as an example.)

‘I’m flying over the black Ukrainian land that Russian tanks are crossing, righting the monstrous injury committed against Russian history in 1991 ... Today we are being reunited with Ukraine once again’ - Aleksandr Prokhanov

It's the 1930s all over again. A hyper-nationalist state is using perceived historical injustices and territorial losses along with the existential threat of another group of people for grounds to go to war.



Tolkien's orcs represent the worst of humanity as he himself experienced this through his own involvement in war. Pro-Russians want the moral high ground but baulk when the savage and barbarous nature of their actions are highlighted. They are dehumanising themselves with every war crime and atrocity they commit. They are reaping what they sow.
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You are fighting propaganda with more propaganda.... it's a meaningless conversation.
 
rambo919 said:
Your narrative that just because Russia was involved in agitating for it means it's not a low intensity civil war really needs a rethink.
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Gobbledegook.

Pish

It just illustrates how deeply you are invested and believe in Russia. You are pro-Russian to the extreme. 100% biased in favour of Russia.

What would your God say, when he sees you lie so much about pretending to be neutral and unbiased?

A civil war by definition is a conflict involving factions of people from the same country.

Ukraine is not Russia.

Russia invading Ukraine, was not Ukraine invading Ukraine, or Russia invading Russia.

It was Russia invading another country.

Changing the definition is a lie.
 
Major Boredom said:
That does not make russia's invasion a civil war numnut . Ukraine != Russia. This is Russia Invading a Completely seperate sovereign country.
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You seem highly ignorant of history if you think no civil war has ever expanded with anther power entering it.
 
buka001 said:
Gobbledegook.

Pish

It just illustrates how deeply you are invested and believe in Russia. You are pro-Russian to the extreme. 100% biased in favour of Russia.

What would your God say, when he sees you lie so much about pretending to be neutral and unbiased?

A civil war by definition is a conflict involving factions of people from the same country.

Ukraine is not Russia.

Russia invading Ukraine, was not Ukraine invading Ukraine, or Russia invading Russia.

It was Russia invading another country.

Changing the definition is a lie.
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You really think that this kind of diversionary rambling is ever going to change anyone's mind on anything?
 
buka001 said:
Which country entered the USA, during the American Civil War?
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There were (at times humorously tense) negotiations with the British as I recall but they were basically just stringing the Confederates along.

buka001 said:
Which country entered England, during the English Civil War?
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Going by specific conflicts where it did not happen proves nothing as a whole.
 
rambo919 said:
What the hell does this support or lack of support that you lot want to force the rest of us to also engage in actually accomplish?
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I have no illusions about forcing you to do anything. If you want to support Russia go right ahead, just don't expect people to smile and nod and pat you on the head for your choice.

rambo919 said:
Being neutral does not mean I have to ignore the facts of this conflict and pretend they don't exist.
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Yeah, fascinating how your supposed facts neatly align with every other Russian apologist on these forums...

rambo919 said:
Then you have never really listened properly? How else would they provoke Russia than by becoming a threat of some kind be it direct or indirect?
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I have listened, just not convinced. This is in no manner shape or form, a defensive war on the part of Russia.

rambo919 said:
Crimea being annexed was Russia taking advantage of the hostilities when the idiots gave them that particular pretext on a silver platter. Just one part of the big picture everyone makes a lot of noise about but not particularly important in own right.
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What pretext? That they have the right to seize territory because the government of another country was changed to something, not of their liking? It's a BS reason, the only reason they did it, is because they knew they could get away with it.


rambo919 said:
If you have a multinational effort to promote one and only one terrorist group as "the only real representative voice of black SA" both in SA and abroad and then demand to not recognize any election unless they stand in it.... how is this not forcing them into power? Was a brilliant con job I admit.
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Why would a multinational effort abroad have any effect on how people voted in the 1994 election? Black people on the whole voted for the ANC because that was the organization that consistently looked out for them under apartheid. This whole conspiracy theory of yours is not supported by reality.

rambo919 said:
How so? Just because you are poor does not mean you have to be a whore.
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Easy to say if you aren't poor yourself.

rambo919 said:
As a stupid example. If they do not make certain decisions in the future, they will default on their loans. Their creditors OWN their future policy decisions. The IMF has been doing this for decades to promote their desired agendas and they are not the only one doing it.
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It's weird how you blame the IMF for giving Ukraine a lifeline rather than the country that created the need for the lifeline in the first place.
 
Of the top of my head:
Vietnam
Korea (still ongoing but so low intensity the foreign power only has a token presence)
WWI was a big one, kinda stopped being a civil war rather quickly though.
Angola
etc

Just because a foreign power enters a civil war does not suddenly transform it into not being a civil war. And actual shooting is not the sole requirement for something to be a war.
 
rambo919 said:
Of the top of my head:
Vietnam
Korea (still ongoing but so low intensity the foreign power only has a token presence)
WWI was a big one, kinda stopped being a civil war rather quickly though.
Angola
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Basically a list of conflicts that no one except you actually calls a civil war. :X3:
 
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