Old South African flag is hate speech, SCA confirms as AfriForum consults its lawyers

[Cosmik Debris]

Still, it is within their mandate to make the courts accessible. There are many good Legal Aid lawyers.

Could our courts be more accessible, sure.

SA's courts are completely inaccessible to the median of the population. Only those in the top and bottom percentile qualify.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

I was just comparing the flag being banned for their own good

You claim to know what's good for me?

 

[Cosmik Debris]

You surely don't know any of AF members then. They seem to love good old days & flag.

Who is AF?

 

[Gone Fishing]

You claim to know what's good for me?

Depends, what do you want to do with the old flag? I can offer some solid advice.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Like Apartheid, the flag is just something in most people's memories now

Not according to the posts here. Everything is to blame on apartheid.

 

[ponder]

So, one of the things that the US does that I approve of is defend the right of people to burn the US Flag for whatever reason.

It falls under protected speech, just like calling people names they don't like. It's not something people here would like based on all the hrc hearings and court cases, our freedom of speech is limited.

Would the South African courts support the rights of people to burn the new SA flag in public in protest? How about burning the old one?

I dunno what the laws are wrt to flag desecration in SA, I'll have to Google that one later. I'm however 99.999% certain burning the old one will be ok.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

I agree, nothing should be banned. But in this instance, they're fighting for the interest of what? Less than 1% of the population?

Less than 1% want it banned.

 

[Gone Fishing]

Not according to the posts here. Everything is to blame on apartheid.

If that wasn't true, you wouldn't cling to the flag so tightly?

 

[Gone Fishing]

Less than 1% want it banned.

Less than 1% want it unbanned.
#Logic

 

[Cosmik Debris]

I still think the overwhelming hatred of the old flag is more to do with dismantling Afrikaans culture rather than it being a symbol for segregation. The flag itself, ugly or not is symbolic of the heritage of Afrikaners. Since South Africa is largely not Afrikaners I can still understand why the national flag was changed but banned?

There where wars fought, cities built and a society created under that flag. Banning it IMO is simply an attempt to strip pride from Afrikaners.

Cultural genocide or cultural cleansing is a concept which was proposed by lawyer Raphael Lemkin in 1944 as a component of genocide. ... John D. Hargreaves writes that "A policy of cultural genocide was implemented: the Catalan language and key symbols of Catalan independent identity and nationhood, such as the flag (the senyera), ...

Cultural genocide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Abuses were committed by the government which advocated that flag. Black people suffered and also SADF conscripts. Many of them are mentally messed up because of abuse in SADF camps and by Apartheid indoctrination.

Flurry of insults incoming in 3...2....1

How do you know this? I was there. Were you?

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Fair enough, my argument was against the worship of that flag.

Show me where that flag is worshipped? It's a flag, not a god.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

I was pointing out that black people and also even white people were messed up by that barbaric regime. Some are so messed up and brainwashed that they view the brainwashing wrought onto them by that government as a good thing.

Cue the ANC and revision of history that you lapped up and you consider others brainwashed?

 

[Cosmik Debris]

As bad as ANC are, they have a much better record when it comes to freedom of speech compared to those savages.

What weren't you allowed to say under apartheid? Examples please?

 

[Cosmik Debris]

BS. They only catered to 10% of the population. Any Tom, Dick and Harry can do a good job if only catering for 10% of the populace and turning a blind eye to the rest.

Oh? Soweto was white then?

 

[Cosmik Debris]

So, one of the things that the US does that I approve of is defend the right of people to burn the US Flag for whatever reason.

Would the South African courts support the rights of people to burn the new SA flag in public in protest? How about burning the old one?

Why not? Faf wears the SA flag as underwear which is strictly forbidden:

The flag must never:​

• Be allowed to touch the ground or floor.
• Be used as a table cloth, or draped in front of a platform.
• Be used to cover a statue, plaque corner stone etc. at unveiling or similar ceremonies.
• Be used to start or finish any competition, race or similar event.
• Be manufactured or used as underclothes, bath and floor mats or any similar demeaning application.
• Be used for any commercial advertising in a manner that will distort or show disrespect to the flag.

Use of the flag in artefacts and products is subject to the approval of The Presidency and, in the case of manufactured items, the Department of Trade and Industry.

 

[lexity]

If you have to get permission from an uninvited 3rd party, before you can trade with your preferred customer, you are not free, pal.

Sorry, you being a bit opaque, example of the above?

Do you ask whether it is legal, before you turn business away?

Whatever your line of business is. Let's say your were a programmer, and for some reason you really wanted to withhold your association with a particular client e.g. because you thought they were racist.

Is your right of Freedom of Association in-tact? Can you say, "No thanks, I'd rather not do business with you" ?

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Depends, what do you want to do with the old flag? I can offer some solid advice.

It's my freedom to as I please with anything I like. Not for you to limit my freedoms.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

If that wasn't true, you wouldn't cling to the flag so tightly?

It's not the apartheid flag. Do try to keep up.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

I dunno what the laws are wrt to flag desecration in SA, I'll have to Google that one later. I'm however 99.999% certain burning the old one will be ok.

Disposal​

When no longer in a fit condition to be used, a flag should be disposed of in a dignified manner, preferably by burning.