Mirror (non)Trading International 4 - Guess we were right all along

When do you think the Marks family will move to Dubai, Ponzi and MLM capital of the world? Perhaps Cheri's girls won't be back at their school after the long weekend.

This time around, Monica hasn't managed to keep her name out of court judgements. FAAKE!

Even if no-one seems able to get Johann extradited from Brazil, NPA here might now get off their perch and go after the people who have been identified as being in management roles in an illegal enterprise.
 
Def-e-nition said:
Would you Possibly be Referring to His Chirp , re :


"
After spending a year enjoying MTI investor funds and banging a Brazilian mistress, Steynberg was arrested in December 2021."

yea?
:ROFL::ROFL::ROFL:
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Being married to a Brazilian, I can assure you, you don't bang them, they bang you :p
 
So what's the realistic play for the Mark's crime family?

Considering their oppulant lifestyle and legal costs I have a sneaking suspicion the stolen money won't last forever.

Stralingrad defence won't really work as it will deplete funds even faster.

I also can't see them paying back a cent, so what options do they have? Flee SA? or start a new ponzi?
 
Tman* said:
So what's the realistic play for the Mark's crime family?

Considering their oppulant lifestyle and legal costs I have a sneaking suspicion the stolen money won't last forever.
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Add to these the fact that Cheri has tried her own gambling with crypto.
Tman* said:
Stralingrad defence won't really work as it will deplete funds even faster.

I also can't see them paying back a cent, so what options do they have? Flee SA? or start a new ponzi?
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My bet is on starting a new Ponzi - Cheri is a serial scammer and like gamblers, drunkards and drug addicts, they can't stop. If they can afford to do so, they will leave South Africa to start a Ponzi elsewhere.- in Dubai if they can afford it or some other scam-friendly country. If they have already burned through so much of what they took out of MTI that they can't leave, then I expect another Ponzi to start here, quite soon.
 
The option that neither @tman nor I mentioned is that Cheri dumps Clynton to take the shzt and goes off with all the crypto / fiat to start again somewhere else. Our own version of the Ponzi Queen. I still have quite a strong suspicion that Johann was made the fall guy and hustled off rather than choosing a move to Brazil.
 
It will be interesting to see how the book that ?Sean? is writing on MTI handles it being a MLM / Ponzi and the CFTC default judgement on Steynberg.
 
Wary GOM said:
When do you think the Marks family will move to Dubai, Ponzi and MLM capital of the world? Perhaps Cheri's girls won't be back at their school after the long weekend.

This time around, Monica hasn't managed to keep her name out of court judgements. FAAKE!

Even if no-one seems able to get Johann extradited from Brazil, NPA here might now get off their perch and go after the people who have been identified as being in management roles in an illegal enterprise.
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I wonder how the top management team are feeling now, Muller, brothers ward, Malton et Al.
Any chance of their arrests at any time?
 
Frikkadel23 said:
Seems that Cheri has removed her Instagram account. Not sure why?
She was showing off a life worth living.
Maybe she doesn't feel that way anymore.
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Scrubbing social media before MTI being declared as a ponzi will seem like admission of guilt, it's not a good look.
It's a bad legal move taking TMCF's ongoing legal battle.

Keep playing the victim card:

A.k.a "yes, I have been involved in several ponzi schemes before, and yes I have made several million dollars from MTI, but you gotta believe me judge, this time it was different"
 
Tman* said:
So what's the realistic play for the Mark's crime family?

Considering their oppulant lifestyle and legal costs I have a sneaking suspicion the stolen money won't last forever.

Stralingrad defence won't really work as it will deplete funds even faster.

I also can't see them paying back a cent, so what options do they have? Flee SA? or start a new ponzi?
Click to expand...
I think they are arrogant enough to simply ignore it, keep on believing they are innocent, and just keep on trucking. It worked before and given the dismal track record of prosecutions it will probably work again.

Best case is the turquoise terror gets extradited to the USA, turns state witness and gets them extradited.
 
Frikkadel23 said:
I wonder how the top management team are feeling now, Muller, brothers ward, Malton et Al.
Any chance of their arrests at any time?
Click to expand...
Announcement of the two judgements effectively together makes matter interesting and at least to me, poses questions that might make the MTI management members still at liberty either worried or relieved.

Judge de Wet's judgement finds that MTI was an illegal Ponzi and therefore that Management were running an illegal entity. Likewise, anyone investing in MTI was, by definition, investing in an illegal entity. This has the consequences that dispositions in the form of property, crypto, fiat or anything else made by MTI to anyone have no value. Likewise, payments made to MTI by investors have no value.

As I understand the above, it means that no-one has any claim on crypto / fiat in MTI because they are proceeds of illegal activity. This seems clear enough - no-one can benefit from a crime or illegal activity.

Judge de Wet rejected the Liquidators' and other Plaintiffs' applications to declare that:
- MTI was insolvent from August 2019;
- any dispositions made by MTI as payments were dispositions with no value;
- any dispositions made after June 2020 had the effect of benefiting some people while being detrimental to others.

As someone without legal training, it seems that this means that there is still much that the Liquidators will have to contest in court with individuals and MTI management.

Based on the CFTC action against Steynberg, the Managers do need to be worried. The Default Judgement awards $1.734 billion to be repaid to US investors. The question whether Steynberg has this now is moot and whether he is even still in that jail in Brazil is also possibly questionable. That leaves the managers and promoters of MTI as the next sources of money for restitution of nett losers. So even if the NPA does nothing, USA authorities might come calling.
 
Wary GOM said:
Announcement of the two judgements effectively together makes matter interesting and at least to me, poses questions that might make the MTI management members still at liberty either worried or relieved.

Judge de Wet's judgement finds that MTI was an illegal Ponzi and therefore that Management were running an illegal entity. Likewise, anyone investing in MTI was, by definition, investing in an illegal entity. This has the consequences that dispositions in the form of property, crypto, fiat or anything else made by MTI to anyone have no value. Likewise, payments made to MTI by investors have no value.

As I understand the above, it means that no-one has any claim on crypto / fiat in MTI because they are proceeds of illegal activity. This seems clear enough - no-one can benefit from a crime or illegal activity.

Judge de Wet rejected the Liquidators' and other Plaintiffs' applications to declare that:
- MTI was insolvent from August 2019;
- any dispositions made by MTI as payments were dispositions with no value;
- any dispositions made after June 2020 had the effect of benefiting some people while being detrimental to others.

As someone without legal training, it seems that this means that there is still much that the Liquidators will have to contest in court with individuals and MTI management.

Based on the CFTC action against Steynberg, the Managers do need to be worried. The Default Judgement awards $1.734 billion to be repaid to US investors. The question whether Steynberg has this now is moot and whether he is even still in that jail in Brazil is also possibly questionable. That leaves the managers and promoters of MTI as the next sources of money for restitution of nett losers. So even if the NPA does nothing, USA authorities might come calling.
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I have a lot more hope in the US guys nailing the kingpins than any SA action
 
notayoba said:
I think they are arrogant enough to simply ignore it, keep on believing they are innocent, and just keep on trucking. It worked before and given the dismal track record of prosecutions it will probably work again.

Best case is the turquoise terror gets extradited to the USA, turns state witness and gets them extradited.
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You can ignore costs orders and civil judgements for years, heck even decades. But it will eventually catch up to you. I can't imagine it's a great feeling knowing the sheriff will show up one day to attach assets.
 
Tman* said:
You can ignore costs orders and civil judgements for years, heck even decades. But it will eventually catch up to you. I can't imagine it's a great feeling knowing the sheriff will show up one day to attach assets.
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Most members of this gang of scammers won't be worried by the sheriff, because they have been breaking laws for ages without major consequences. All one has to do is look at how Ponzi and other scam operators elsewhere behave to get the picture for what can play out here. Wait until things get warm and then leave for Dubai etc. while in the meantime running new scams to keep in practice. Even the victims won't bother to do the things they COULD do -namely "name and shame" and pester the perpetrators.

I have a, probably childishly naive, hope that following the judgment here, Clynton, Cheri and Monica at least are named as persons of interest by the US authorities or Americans who now have legal claims against the boy in blue.
 
Tman* said:
You can ignore costs orders and civil judgements for years, heck even decades. But it will eventually catch up to you. I can't imagine it's a great feeling knowing the sheriff will show up one day to attach assets.
Click to expand...
The sad thing is most scammers are wise to this and don’t own anything of any substance in their name, the sheriff can attach the kitchen utensils and the 32” TV. The defendant doesn’t “own” anything else but will pay back R1000 per month for the next 20yrs but defaults on that by the 5th month and no one can locate them and what normal happens is at the end of that long and convoluted struggle people give up so they can move on with their lives. Scammer skips away near scott free, granted they probably lead pretty pitiful lives and they can do very little in their own name.
 
airborne said:
The sad thing is most scammers are wise to this and don’t own anything of any substance in their name, the sheriff can attach the kitchen utensils and the 32” TV. The defendant doesn’t “own” anything else but will pay back R1000 per month for the next 20yrs but defaults on that by the 5th month and no one can locate them and what normal happens is at the end of that long and convoluted struggle people give up so they can move on with their lives. Scammer skips away near scott free, granted they probably lead pretty pitiful lives and they can do very little in their own name.
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Horribly true. Cheri has found a way of obfuscating things by marrying and re-marrying, so she can still swan around and even become assistant treasurer or whatever she is on the school board.
 
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