Status of ipv6 in South Africa

elf_lord_ZC5 said:
But it is related, but yes.
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Your statement is people dont want to pay up for v6 but realistically everyone that has v4 will have their v6 allocation. So what is the discussion here?
 
PBCool said:
Your statement is people dont want to pay up for v6 but realistically everyone that has v4 will have their v6 allocation. So what is the discussion here?
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ISP's don't seem to be to keen on implementing IP V6 apparently they prefer the abomanation that is CGNAT, to manage scarce IP V4 addresses, rather than moving to IP V6 which was designed to address this issue.

Probably hardware infrastructure issues that contribute to this, reluctance, but such is life.
 
elf_lord_ZC5 said:
ISP's don't seem to be to keen on implementing IP V6 apparently they prefer the abomanation that is CGNAT, to manage scarce IP V4 addresses, rather than moving to IP V6 which was designed to address this issue.

Probably hardware infrastructure issues that contribute to this, reluctance, but such is life.
Click to expand...
Yeah again what has been discussed at length right.

So you cant just go native v6, you need dual stack *somewhere*

So then you need to run cgnat if you are short on v6 or then managing a 6to4 gateway.

So then this comes back to the point of most providers not deploying v6 because its not seen as a necessity.

But it is becoming more prominent, as I said Vumatel only recently offered support on Active E for v6.
 
PBCool said:
Yeah again what has been discussed at length right.

So you cant just go native v6, you need dual stack *somewhere*

So then you need to run cgnat if you are short on v6 or then managing a 6to4 gateway.

So then this comes back to the point of most providers not deploying v6 because its not seen as a necessity.

But it is becoming more prominent, as I said Vumatel only recently offered support on Active E for v6.
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:thumbsup:

Someone needs to get the ball rolling, so Vumatel seems to be them. Momentum will build from here - probably slowly - any progress is good
 
elf_lord_ZC5 said:
ISP's don't seem to be to keen on implementing IP V6 apparently they prefer the abomanation that is CGNAT, to manage scarce IP V4 addresses, rather than moving to IP V6 which was designed to address this issue.

Probably hardware infrastructure issues that contribute to this, reluctance, but such is life.
Click to expand...

AFRINIC and ZANOG offer no end of free IPv6 training opportunities for ISPs to learn how to implement IPv6.
AFRINIC give massive blocks of IPv6 addresses away for free to their members.

There is one IP transit supplier in South Africa who provides free IPv6 transit to any ISP that asks. We've been using their free IPv6 transit since 2012.

What I've seen in the various training sessions I've been part of is that as soon as many people see the "big numbers", their eyes simply glaze over and they lose all interest.

I simply can't understand why more people don't embrace IPv6. As I write this, more than 60% of the traffic passing through our edge routers is IPv6.
 
portcullis said:
What I've seen in the various training sessions I've been part of is that as soon as many people see the "big numbers", their eyes simply glaze over and they lose all interest.

I simply can't understand why more people don't embrace IPv6. As I write this, more than 60% of the traffic passing through our edge routers is IPv6.
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Big numbers, are the gateway to opportunity, in my opinion, not reason for eyes to glaze over.


Like you, I don't understand - unless there is one group with a lot of clout - running scared because there are a potential handful of ancient routers out there in the wild, that cannot handle IP V6. My guess is probably their own. These people are putting the brakes on, but that is people's for you.
 
elf_lord_ZC5 said:
Big numbers, are the gateway to opportunity, in my opinion, not reason for eyes to glaze over.


Like you, I don't understand - unless there is one group with a lot of clout - running scared because there are a potential handful of ancient routers out there in the wild, that cannot handle IP V6. My guess is probably their own. These people are putting the brakes on, but that is people's for you.
Click to expand...

I'm going to be brutally honest here.

When I rolled out the first FTTH link in South Africa in 2009, there was so much push back that people tried to have me arrested, as they thought I was pulling a fast one. Little did they know I'd just spent five years learning the business in the UK.

Between 2009 and 2013 I installed more FTTB connections in Somerset West than I installed FTTH connections in the same town. It was only once PBCool and his guys started walking behind the Vuma contractors, signing people up and them telling anyone with ears they they have fibre internet at home, that people in the Cape realised that maybe I'm not a con artist and maybe there's something to this 'fibre thing".

People don't like change,

If you were to say to any small to medium ISP who's peering properly; "here's a gig of free international transit", the ISP would say; "what's the catch" and you say; "it's IPv6 only". The majority of ISPs will walk away on the spot because they simply don't understand how the big numbers work. And my opinion - as someone who's stood in the front of the class teaching the big numbers - they don't want to learn. They're attending the course because they were told to. Actually figuring out how to get a RADIUS server to allocate a v6 block to a client router, and then queuing that traffic, simply isn't going to happen.

It's only once they can no longer receive /23 blocks of IPv6 from AFRINIC that the die hard ISPs pull finger and learn.


Yesterday a van from this company tried to run me off the road.
hero24.co.za

Hero Networks24 Inc The ISP

A wireless internet service provider and FM/ RF signal distributor across South Africa, licensed by ICASA
hero24.co.za hero24.co.za

When you're selling 5Mb for R499.99 a month, you will still have a need to sell 15 year old TPLink routers to your clients.

The rest of the world is selling WiFi6 or 7 routers to their residential clients. There should be no IPv6 issues with client routers. Only an inability to implement on the ISP side.

However, IPv6 implementation on certain firewalls is dismal. Not one of my clients with a fancy, managed firewall uses IPv6.
From what I've seen, the options are available in the firewall firmware, but the guys doing the management in places like Pune aren't interested in implementing it.
 
elf_lord_ZC5 said:


Someone needs to get the ball rolling, so Vumatel seems to be them. Momentum will build from here - probably slowly - any progress is good
Click to expand...
Hmm not really, every other network that was effectively a layer2 network would have v6 as an option natively because its within the ISPs control.

So Vumatel (ActiveE) are basically the last to the party.
 
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portcullis said:
I'm going to be brutally honest here.

When I rolled out the first FTTH link in South Africa in 2009, there was so much push back that people tried to have me arrested, as they thought I was pulling a fast one. Little did they know I'd just spent five years learning the business in the UK.

Between 2009 and 2013 I installed more FTTB connections in Somerset West than I installed FTTH connections in the same town. It was only once PBCool and his guys started walking behind the Vuma contractors, signing people up and them telling anyone with ears they they have fibre internet at home, that people in the Cape realised that maybe I'm not a con artist and maybe there's something to this 'fibre thing".

People don't like change,

If you were to say to any small to medium ISP who's peering properly; "here's a gig of free international transit", the ISP would say; "what's the catch" and you say; "it's IPv6 only". The majority of ISPs will walk away on the spot because they simply don't understand how the big numbers work. And my opinion - as someone who's stood in the front of the class teaching the big numbers - they don't want to learn. They're attending the course because they were told to. Actually figuring out how to get a RADIUS server to allocate a v6 block to a client router, and then queuing that traffic, simply isn't going to happen.

It's only once they can no longer receive /23 blocks of IPv6 from AFRINIC that the die hard ISPs pull finger and learn.


Yesterday a van from this company tried to run me off the road.
hero24.co.za

Hero Networks24 Inc The ISP

A wireless internet service provider and FM/ RF signal distributor across South Africa, licensed by ICASA
hero24.co.za hero24.co.za

When you're selling 5Mb for R499.99 a month, you will still have a need to sell 15 year old TPLink routers to your clients.

The rest of the world is selling WiFi6 or 7 routers to their residential clients. There should be no IPv6 issues with client routers. Only an inability to implement on the ISP side.

However, IPv6 implementation on certain firewalls is dismal. Not one of my clients with a fancy, managed firewall uses IPv6.
From what I've seen, the options are available in the firewall firmware, but the guys doing the management in places like Pune aren't interested in implementing it.
Click to expand...
We used HE for transit previously from London, so we unfortunately wouldnt use them in ZA based on that experience. Just a personal experience thing.
 
portcullis said:
I'm going to be brutally honest here.

When I rolled out the first FTTH link in South Africa in 2009, there was so much push back that people tried to have me arrested, as they thought I was pulling a fast one. Little did they know I'd just spent five years learning the business in the UK.

Between 2009 and 2013 I installed more FTTB connections in Somerset West than I installed FTTH connections in the same town. It was only once PBCool and his guys started walking behind the Vuma contractors, signing people up and them telling anyone with ears they they have fibre internet at home, that people in the Cape realised that maybe I'm not a con artist and maybe there's something to this 'fibre thing".

People don't like change,

If you were to say to any small to medium ISP who's peering properly; "here's a gig of free international transit", the ISP would say; "what's the catch" and you say; "it's IPv6 only". The majority of ISPs will walk away on the spot because they simply don't understand how the big numbers work. And my opinion - as someone who's stood in the front of the class teaching the big numbers - they don't want to learn. They're attending the course because they were told to. Actually figuring out how to get a RADIUS server to allocate a v6 block to a client router, and then queuing that traffic, simply isn't going to happen.

It's only once they can no longer receive /23 blocks of IPv6 from AFRINIC that the die hard ISPs pull finger and learn.


Yesterday a van from this company tried to run me off the road.
hero24.co.za

Hero Networks24 Inc The ISP

A wireless internet service provider and FM/ RF signal distributor across South Africa, licensed by ICASA
hero24.co.za hero24.co.za

When you're selling 5Mb for R499.99 a month, you will still have a need to sell 15 year old TPLink routers to your clients.

The rest of the world is selling WiFi6 or 7 routers to their residential clients. There should be no IPv6 issues with client routers. Only an inability to implement on the ISP side.

However, IPv6 implementation on certain firewalls is dismal. Not one of my clients with a fancy, managed firewall uses IPv6.
From what I've seen, the options are available in the firewall firmware, but the guys doing the management in places like Pune aren't interested in implementing it.
Click to expand...

Ostriches, putting their heads in the sand. Some where along the road, they wake up and find the world has passed them by ... , they are no longer relevant. People just being people.
 
elf_lord_ZC5 said:
Ostriches, putting their heads in the sand. Some where along the road, they wake up and find the world has passed them by ... , they are no longer relevant. People just being people.
Click to expand...

So they are last on to yhe bus, so most likely to end up pushing it.
 
PBCool said:
I do believe we will see that number grow substantially in the next year or 2 however.
Click to expand...
Why do you believe this? Can you share some deployment info?

What would move the needle is if our mobile providers catch a wake-up and follow the rest of the world.
 
portcullis said:
I simply can't understand why more people don't embrace IPv6. As I write this, more than 60% of the traffic passing through our edge routers is IPv6.
Click to expand...
You guys rock, have been leaders in IPV6 deployment for a long time. Afrihost (@AfriNatic )also but I can't understand why their adoption seems to hover at 22% and is not growing at all. And SA deployment fell off a cliff when WebAfrica merged with MWeb Never recovered after that. What a shame.
 
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