IRAN WAR: You can't lose, if you don't have a goal

[ghaye]

We disagree, then.

The vast majority of people do not benefit from ongoing conflict and they know it.

Those who do benefit are vastly out-numbered.

There is a degree of a downward spiral following 'aggression' are interpreted as defensive force on both sides.

But willful mutual destruction on the part of the masses is, in real life, very expensive to maintain. Too expensive without a central bank and a world reserve currency to keep conflict artificially stimulated, military contractors being paid handsomely, and a few twisted souls to spin offense as defense who have no stomach for a level playing field, in peace-times.

A bit closer to home we have something called BEE that does the same as the bold bit above. And it also does a good job of destroying our economy. This does not seem to bother those that call the shots, so why would it be different anywhere else?

 

[lexity]

I will keep saying this as long as people keep ignoring it; since the Revolution, the central driver in Iranian military and foreign policy is the elimination of Israel. They do not recognise Israel's right to exist. The two previous Supreme Leaders referred to Israel a ''cancerous tumour'' that needed to be removed. The current one is said to be even more of a hardliner than his father. But not that it even matters as the IRGC practically runs the country now and they are militant fanatics.

Hezbollah's founding manifesto states that their ultimate objective is to eliminate Israel. Not better Lebanon. Not ''save'' Palestine. No, the destruction of another state. Hezbollah is not only funded by Iran, but their very existence was influenced by the Iranian Revolution and the IRGC.

Criticise the US and Israel as much as you like, and a lot of that criticism is valid, but stop ignoring or glossing over what Iran is all about and what they have always been about.

I think the US has a mandate to ignore any Iranian threat to Israel(which we can debate till the goya come home... in body bags).

It's what Trump ran on.

 

[WanderingMind]

You don't see a pattern here? or at least too much of a coincidence that they all ended up way worse than before American intervention.

There's really no need to debate this point, there's enough empirical evidence to suggest that if America wrecks a country then promises to make it thrive again, that's not likely to happen.

Correct, the pattern is that the governments of those countries are evil and don't care about their people.

 

[lexity]

A bit closer to home we have something called BEE that does the same as the bold bit above. And it also does a good job of destroying our economy. This does not seem to bother those that call the shots, so why would it be different anywhere else?

Because they know it's unsustainable, and they are desperate to avoid a collapse under their own watch.

So... they're categorically the same but any simultaneous collapse is deliberately co-ordinated to ensure what George Soros described as 'a managed decline'.

To save their skins it has to be a managed decline.

 

[lexity]

Correct, the pattern is that the governments of those countries are evil and don't care about their people.

Their governments are evil in capitulating to and simping for the empire, which in this case is Anglo-American.

 

[WanderingMind]

And you wonder why he did not mention all those countries that are thriving and prosperous after gaining American freedoms...

It's really weird to me that you think it's the USA's fault.

It's like putting a criminal behind bars.
He gets out and does the same thing.

No, it's the police's fault.

 

[Spizz]

Actually the stronger argument - which I've referred to previously - is that anyone not prepared to negotiate now has to share the blame.

October 7th changed things. Even moderate Israeli's changed that day.

Currently, a 2SS is at odds with the expansionist Netanhu agenda.

And several terrorist organisations and the odd country who want them gone.

We know who the aggressors are in this war on Iran.

All it took was a couple of madmen and here we are. As much as I can't stand Trump, there is something refreshing at standing up to bullies who talk and act diplomatically but have a completely different agenda and everyone knows it. I say fsck the Iranian regime, they deserve everything thay get. It's deplorable that it will cost so many innocent lives though.

Netanyahu moans about Iran threatening Israel with nuclear attack.... for 30 or 40 years he's been sabre-rattling.

Can hardly blame him. Israel live sunder siege.

I say we need another 40 years of threats as credible and imminent as that one, rather than what we have now.

It's all heading to destruction. The world has turned their back on them and Israel have now made their bed. There is only one way this ends.

 

[TheChamp]

It's really weird to me that you think it's the USA's fault.

It's like putting a criminal behind bars.
He gets out and does the same thing.

No, it's the police's fault.

Now imagine boasting that you have put all criminals behind bars and the country is now going to thrive, only for it to be even worse than before you put all the criminals in jail.

That's how American freedom works.

 

[lexity]

I say we need another 40 years of threats as credible and imminent as that one, rather than what we have now.

It's all heading to destruction. The world has turned their back on them and Israel have now made their bed. There is only one way this ends.

This response tells me all I need to know about who is not genuinely prepared to negotiate.

The rule in the secular West is defensive force has to be proportional to any actual offensive force, or threats that are both credible and imminent.

30 -40 years without anything materializing ....is not imminent.

 

[lexity]

When Trump puts Israel first, he is the anti-American.

 

[s0lar]

October 7th changed things. Even moderate Israeli's changed that day.



And several terrorist organisations and the odd country who want them gone.



All it took was a couple of madmen and here we are. As much as I can't stand Trump, there is something refreshing at standing up to bullies who talk and act diplomatically but have a completely different agenda and everyone knows it. I say fsck the Iranian regime, they deserve everything thay get. It's deplorable that it will cost so many innocent lives though.



Can hardly blame him. Israel live sunder siege.



It's all heading to destruction. The world has turned their back on them and Israel have now made their bed. There is only one way this ends.

Oom, your views are behind the meta.

40% nearly half the population have opened their eyes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/29/polls/israel-gaza-war-us-poll.html

 

[Spizz]

This response tells me all I need to know about who is not genuinely prepared to negotiate.

You talk as if I'm a spokesman for Israel

But hey, that's my opinion. I call it like I see it and imo Israel are done with kicking the can down the road.

The rule in the secular West is defensive force has to be proportional to any actual offensive force, or threats that are both credible and imminent.

Whereas the rule regarding attacking Israel is the more random the better. Seems fair.

30 -40 years without anything materializing ....is not imminent.

20,000 rockets fired indiscriminately from Gaza since 2006 alone and culminating in a massacre might just disagree with you. As I said, just my opinion but Israel are done with diplomacy, it's reap what you sow time. To them it's survival, not a maths excercise.

 

[vigras rojara]

Israel was done with diplomacy in 1948 already, when they kicked out 700 000 people, took their property and denied them any right of return.

And then people wonder why the place has been in a perpetual state of conflict ever since.

 

[lexity]

To avoid entangling alliances has been a maxim of our policy ever since the days of Washington, and its wisdom no one will attempt to dispute.

James Buchanan

 

[Spizz]

Oom, your views are behind the meta.

My views? Dude, my views are we all have a big hug and sit round the camp fire singing. What you are seeing is my opinion on what is happening and calling it like I see it.

40% nearly half the population have opened their eyes.

Seems like you are the one with the strong views.

View attachment 1901093

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/29/polls/israel-gaza-war-us-poll.html

Yeah, and you are quoting me in this why?

 

[lexity]

30 -40 years without anything materializing ....is not imminent.

20,000 rockets fired indiscriminately from Gaza since 2006 alone and culminating in a massacre might just disagree with you. As I said, just my opinion but Israel are done with diplomacy, it's reap what you sow time. To them it's survival, not a maths excercise.

No... the 30- 40 years of justification offered was specifically re: 'the' nuclear threat.

And anyway, Trump was elected to stay out of yet another war of choice.

 

[Splinter]

View attachment 1901053

Look at you using a great US actor to try and diss me - talk about irony

 

[Spizz]

Israel was done with diplomacy in 1948 already, when they kicked out 700 000 people, took their property and denied them any right of return.

And then people wonder why the place has been in a perpetual state of conflict ever since.

Oh, is that what it is? I don't see a similar state of conflict in Cyprus or Karelia. Do you think it might not be as simple as this?

 

[Spizz]

No... the 30- 40 years of justification offered was specifically re: 'the' nuclear threat.

How do you measure that without actually waiting for a nuclear bomb to drop on you?

And anyway, Trump was elected to stay out of yet another war of choice.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[vigras rojara]

Oh, is that what it is? I don't see a similar state of conflict in Cyprus or Karelia. Do you think it might not be as simple as this?

Well everyone seems to think that Israel was just sitting there minding their own business in the promised land, when some nasty Arabs turned up and started being hateful to them.

And kinda forgetting that kicking 700 000 out of their homes isn't perhaps the best way to ensure a peaceful existence.

To deny that is ostrich stuff.