47.1% of South African adults do not have matric

  • Thread starter Thread starter Kirsten Minnaar
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Except you're here on the internet writing a coherent argument, reading other people's opinions, and communicating... skills that school taught you.

Saying school was a complete waste ignores the basics it gave you: literacy, numeracy, critical thinking, communication, socialising, applying yourself to a problem until the problem is solved and the ability to learn new things on your own. All these things you applied to paying taxes, interest, contracts etc and were somewhat successful at.

Most of those 47% will never learn any of these things or by the time they do will be unemployable. So who cares? Anyone who wants a have decent country.
You’re confusing education with schooling.

Nobody is saying reading, writing, maths, communication or problem solving are useless. The point is that those skills come from learning and practice and not magically from sitting in a classroom for 6-7 hours a day.

If school reliably taught critical thinking, financial literacy, contracts, taxes, communication and independent learning we wouldn’t have so many adults leaving school unable to do those things properly.

Traditional schooling is not the only way to learn, and it is often an inefficient way. For example a child doing focused learning at home for 2 hours plus reading, projects, real life responsibiliteis, sport, play and proper social interaction, can absolutely learn those same skills.. often better.
 
School is only useful to teach you literacy and numeracy.
School does not teach you critical thinking, it teach you herd thinkimg, it turns you into a sheep.

Communication is a natural trait you start learning from a young age, on your own. Learning, in its most effective natural state, is simply the repetition of things.

Problem solving, again, you learn on you own, even animals can do it. School teach you to follow some one else's advice, or a manual. Without it, the subject become useless. That's why support stuff sounds like robots.

Learning new things are again a natural trait, even babies do it.
Well it does teach critical thinking speak to someone without an education and you figure quickly that they can not think critically.

Communication is not natural it is something you work at your entire life and school gives the opportunity to test these skills between cultures and backgrounds.

Some things you can learn by yourself and parrot teaching is a horrible tool but unfortunately most jobs require research and regurgitate. Saying you don't learn something from sitting with a math problem and solving it over hours, then building on that skill and solving the next problem is rubbish.

Once you have read 1000s of CV's, interviewed 1000s of people and hired 100s of people you will understand. A person with good matric and good degree know how to work 95% of the time. You can throw them something difficult and the may complain but they will get it done. Drop outs etc talk a big game and produce nothing.

I am a pentester/hacker as a profession we get paid to not think like sheep and highly educated people generally make better none sheep thinkers.

I feel like you are young and things will make sense when you are older.
 
You’re confusing education with schooling.

Nobody is saying reading, writing, maths, communication or problem solving are useless. The point is that those skills come from learning and practice and not magically from sitting in a classroom for 6-7 hours a day.

If school reliably taught critical thinking, financial literacy, contracts, taxes, communication and independent learning we wouldn’t have so many adults leaving school unable to do those things properly.

Traditional schooling is not the only way to learn, and it is often an inefficient way. For example a child doing focused learning at home for 2 hours plus reading, projects, real life responsibiliteis, sport, play and proper social interaction, can absolutely learn those same skills.. often better.
That 47% can't do those things and are going to be a drain on our society. Sitting in a classroom teaches you how to do a work day and remain disciplined which is the hardest thing to learn when working.

I never said it teaches you x or y. School gives you tools to make decisions for yourself what you do with those is up to you.

I would love to see a child in 2 hours a day learn reading, projects, real life responsibilities, sport, play and proper social interaction. You will never get a decent social life nor sports but you may learn a few more real life responsibilities. Even if this was true how is a low income family supposed to achieve this you are thinking unique case not big picture.
 
Once you have read 1000s of CV's, interviewed 1000s of people and hired 100s of people you will understand. A person with good matric and good degree know how to work 95% of the time. You can throw them something difficult and the may complain but they will get it done. Drop outs etc talk a big game and produce nothing.
That's a gross generalisation if there ever was one. I know a few dropouts who are probably more successful than you, owning multiple businesses, raking in millions a year.
 
I would love to see a child in 2 hours a day learn reading, projects, real life responsibilities, sport, play and proper social interaction. You will never get a decent social life nor sports but you may learn a few more real life responsibilities.

Sigh. Did comprehension take the day off?

I didn’t say a child learns everything in life in 2 hours a day. I said 2 hours of focused academic learning can often cover what takes much longer in a traditional classroom setting in 6-7 hours. the rest of the day can include reading, projects, chores, sport, social activities, practical skills and actual real world responsibility.

Pretending traditional school is the only path to discipline, education, sport or social life is just lazy thinking.

Even if this was true how is a low income family supposed to achieve this you are thinking unique case not big picture.

Fair point on access, but that doesn’t make traditional school the gold standard.
 
That's a gross generalisation if there ever was one. I know a few dropouts who are probably more successful than you, owning multiple businesses, raking in millions a year.
In my industry this is the case especially when a potential employee is early 20s. A 24 year old ready to grind vs a guy who has been buggering around since 18 it's a no brainer. The gap does close later on.

There are plenty people more successful than me they could go start a business and hit the mother load. I am talking in general in my industry with new employees getting into cyber security. I probably didn't make that clear.
 
Sigh. Did comprehension take the day off?

I didn’t say a child learns everything in life in 2 hours a day. I said 2 hours of focused academic learning can often cover what takes much longer in a traditional classroom setting in 6-7 hours. the rest of the day can include reading, projects, chores, sport, social activities, practical skills and actual real world responsibility.

Pretending traditional school is the only path to discipline, education, sport or social life is just lazy thinking.



Fair point on access, but that doesn’t make traditional school the gold standard.
That's how it was written.

Thinking a home schooled child can get everything out of there parents is lazier thinking. Name a professional sportsman who was home schooled and made it to the top of a sport. The bonds you form during school are also the closest bonds I have ever had and still go spend time with my school mates all over the world, much harder when you aren't in the trenches going through the same hell.

It is the gold standard if home schooling is worse.
 
lol. really dude?


See, your education already failed you.
Yes really, not everyone finds it easy to communicate and people who think they are fantastic at communication are not always good at it. Like everything it is a skill where the more you practice the better you get.

There is a reason no one takes a 20 year old seriously in a company, doesn't know a huge amount and doesn't know how to communicate the ideas he does have. Before people take him seriously he has to learn people's mannerisms and when to interject etc. These are things you learn socialising at school to a degree.

You need to apply a little thought before jumping to conclusions.
 
If we eliminate failing matric due to Afrikaans, what will the percentage then be?

Wait I have those figures. 40% of matric failures are due to a 2nd or 3rd language failure.

And if we look at the figures shockingly, many actually scores A's in other subjects but fail mainly because of well Afrikaans.

Only about 8 countries in the world require you to pass another language other than your home language to get a diploma.

Imagine we can scrap Afrikaans and instead require a subject like Engineering, Robotics etc. How much better our pupils will become.

Yip Mechanical, Electrical or Civil Engineering at school.
How many of those countries have 11 official languages? Last time I checked, Afrikaans wasn’t a prerequisite for matric, but a 2nd language was. There are other choices.

But also, considering Afrikaans is the second or third most spoken language in South Africa, and still widely used as the lingua Franca in many regions of the country, it doesn’t kinda make sense to learn to speak it at second language (or what they now call first additional language) level. Do you have any idea how easy second language is to pass if you even remotely apply yourself.

Also, most South Africans already speak at least two languages, which is amazing, and should be celebrated more. Learning languages is incredible for brain development and you learn lots of other skills along the way without even realising it.

My opinion, two languages should forever remain compulsary, and maths lit should be dropped. There are a lot more useful things kids can do with the time they waste not learning maths in the maths lit class. That is a total waste of time subject.
You’re confusing education with schooling.

Nobody is saying reading, writing, maths, communication or problem solving are useless. The point is that those skills come from learning and practice and not magically from sitting in a classroom for 6-7 hours a day.

If school reliably taught critical thinking, financial literacy, contracts, taxes, communication and independent learning we wouldn’t have so many adults leaving school unable to do those things properly.

Traditional schooling is not the only way to learn, and it is often an inefficient way. For example a child doing focused learning at home for 2 hours plus reading, projects, real life responsibiliteis, sport, play and proper social interaction, can absolutely learn those same skills.. often better.
Homeschooling is superior to bad schooling, but it will never, ever be better than a good, traditional education.

If I need a subject matter expert to solve a very specific problem, I don’t care much about his all around character or social demeanour, as long as he is the best at his job, all good. I once had the displeasure of working with a drone pilot who was homeschooled. He was brilliant at his job, but he was a liability if you didn’t keep him locked up in his trailer with his VR headset on. If he came anywhere near a client you were certain to be in for a seriously awkward conversation - because this kid simply had no sense of social etiquette or how the world functioned in general.

So, if I need a leader, someone who can solve complex issues amongst diverse groups of people, think on their feet, and generally go above and beyond, I’m picking the guy who attended a big school, and stood out above the crowd - head boy, team captains those sorts, but from a good schools that had a balance between education, culture, sport and just enough silliness and tomfoolery. Those guys will blow you away every time.

That's a gross generalisation if there ever was one. I know a few dropouts who are probably more successful than you, owning multiple businesses, raking in millions a year.
Those are still the outliers. For every Steve Jobs or Elon musk or Richard Branson, there’s 10s of thousands of dropouts who couldn’t get anywhere in life.
 
That's a gross generalisation if there ever was one. I know a few dropouts who are probably more successful than you, owning multiple businesses, raking in millions a year.
These are micro-exceptions...and anecdotal evidence.

In general, school dropouts are fukups.

That being said, schooling needs to change dramatically. There are some useless subjects that can get replaced.
 
If we eliminate failing matric due to Afrikaans, what will the percentage then be?

Wait I have those figures. 40% of matric failures are due to a 2nd or 3rd language failure.

And if we look at the figures shockingly, many actually scores A's in other subjects but fail mainly because of well Afrikaans.

Only about 8 countries in the world require you to pass another language other than your home language to get a diploma.

Imagine we can scrap Afrikaans and instead require a subject like Engineering, Robotics etc. How much better our pupils will become.

Yip Mechanical, Electrical or Civil Engineering at school.
Just because you and others were/are too stupid to learn Afrikaans, don't blame it for the general state of education in SA today.

That's just being willfully obtuse and dramatic.
 
That's how it was written.

Thinking a home schooled child can get everything out of there parents is lazier thinking. Name a professional sportsman who was home schooled and made it to the top of a sport. The bonds you form during school are also the closest bonds I have ever had and still go spend time with my school mates all over the world, much harder when you aren't in the trenches going through the same hell.

It is the gold standard if home schooling is worse.
You are making many assumptions in this thread which are far from correct.
Home schooling is actually quite common in top tier sports people because that's the only way they can get a school education and still have time to train to elite levels and be able to travel to competitions.
 
Just because you and others were/are too stupid to learn Afrikaans, don't blame it for the general state of education in SA today.

That's just being willfully obtuse and dramatic.
And you have to be exceptionally stupid, or wilfully obtuse to not be able to learn a language to at least the basic level required to pass a second language matric paper, after 12 years of schooling.
 
You are making many assumptions in this thread which are far from correct.
Home schooling is actually quite common in top tier sports people because that's the only way they can get a school education and still have time to train to elite levels and be able to travel to competitions.
Ja, Uhm SARU and their 4 world cups just called and said bullsht….

As did 95% of all Olympic gold medalists.

Sure, there are exceptions in some sports (particularly individual sports), but it’s definitely not the norm. Homeschooled kids often also don’t have the resilience required in elite sport to pick up the pieces when they lose. Good schools use sport to teach exactly those lessons
 
Are we talking about a pass mark of 30% or South Africans who have gone on to excel in blue collar work and other innovative business ideas?
 
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