Online shops that make you pay to return defective items thread

[RedViking]

Couple of thing this thread is for:

- This thread is to name the shops that penalise you for shopping with them when an item is not received as advertised , or need to be returned under warranty. Takealot and Amazon does not do this.

- Education. This random website says shops are not allowed to charge you for the return of a defective item , or if not as advertised https://engelsman.co.za/online-shopping-nightmares-your-rights-when-things-go-wrong

Is there a black and white rule to back this up in CPA ?

- How do you feel about shops that charge a restocking fee and what do you think is a reasonable percentage? For defective items this should not apply, what about new items you not happy with for whatever reason but you opened the box. These shops often also make you pay for the shipping and it is usually an inflated set price , like R200, while normally it would cost R70, as an example. And then they charge a 20-30% restock penalty.

- As a supplier. How do you manage shipping costs. Some shops offer free delivery. With margins being so tight , does it actually cover everything? Could you give perspective on how these charges are calculated and how it impacts your business.


My personal opinion in the next post.

Edit: Spelling

 

[RedViking]

It is seldom that the big chain stores would penalise you for returning items from my experience. Takealot, amazon, Foschini group etc.

Then there are the "smaller" online stores, often the computer stores that do charge you, even if the item is defective or not as advertised.

Personally I feel like if you received an item and nothing is wrong with it, you just don't like the colour anymore, it is reasonable to pay for the shipping but their R200 they charge is ridiculous as I would assume they get cheaper rates. Also think the restock fee should not be more than 10%, anything more is ridiculous. For items that goes into your ears and nose and other holes, a higher restocking fee is acceptable. Gross!

There should be zero cost to the buyer if the product has defects and of poor quality compared to the description and it is not made clear. Return should be free and a refund to bank account should be given, swiftly.

Of course you vote with your wallet. There are shops which I used once and it cost me more than the better price they offered compared to e.g. Takealot or Amazon with no hassle returns. These practices I think is more harmful as consumers might not come back to your store. My point is mostly from defective items or items that are not as advertised.

 

[Smiggles]

Big name companies as well. I had to pay to return my "recalled" Stanley cup. Also had to pay to ship my Sennheiser headphones to Jozi only for them to tell me they can't fix it.

 

[RedViking]

Big name companies as well. I had to pay to return my "recalled" Stanley cup. Also had to pay to ship my Sennheiser headphones to Jozi only for them to tell me they can't fix it.

Those Stanley cups though. What a scam ! Those are the things you get from OneDayOnly and only because you want to impress your office buddies, but you paid 80% too much for it

 

[Tongs of Destiny]

Wootware, they will fix your defective item under warranty if it complies with the warranty rules BUT you have to send the item to them which means you pay the courier charge...

Ugh fair enough I guess, I'm sure most if not all shops just say, "send the item to us"

 

[hellfire]

Couple of thing this thread is for:

- This thread is to name the shops that penalise you for shopping with them when an item is not received as advertised , or need to be returned under warranty. Takealot and Amazing does not do this.

- Education. This random website says shops are not allowed to charge you for the return of a defective item , or if not as advertised https://engelsman.co.za/online-shopping-nightmares-your-rights-when-things-go-wrong

Is there a black and white rule to back this up in CPA ?

- How do you feel about shops that charge a restocking fee and what do you think is a reasonable percentage? For defective items this should not apply, what about new items you not happy with for whatever reason but you opened the box. These shops often also make you pay for the shipping and it is usually an inflated set price , like R200, while normally it would cost R70, as an example. And then they charge a 20-30% restock penalty.

- As a supplier. How do you manage shipping costs. Some shops offer free delivery. With margins being so tight , does it actually cover everything? Could you give perspective on how these charges are calculated and how it impacts your business.


My personal opinion in the next post.

Are you not going to name any shops?

 

[Goosfrabba]

Big name companies as well. I had to pay to return my "recalled" Stanley cup. Also had to pay to ship my Sennheiser headphones to Jozi only for them to tell me they can't fix it.

Was a bit confused, thought you had bought Ice Hockey memoribilia.

Makes more sense now

 

[RedViking]

Are you not going to name any shops?

I am going to, yes.

 

[RedViking]

Evetech: https://www.evetech.co.za/returns-and-exchange-policy/x/1641
......return the product within seven days of delivery for a full refund, excluding shipping costs. To qualify for a full refund, the product must be unopened, and returned with all original packaging and materials

For opened products, a re-stocking fee of up to 25% may apply......

.......If you encounter a faulty item, please contact us, and we will guide you through the return process. In such cases, the customer is responsible for arranging the shipment.........

Wootware: https://www.wootware.co.za/terms
...........returned within seven days of the delivery for a full refund, less the shipping costs. Should an opened product be returned, a re-stocking fee of up to 25% will be charged.

Should you have a faulty item, contact us and we'll assist you by providing you with the details for the return process. In this case, the customer will be responsible for arranging delivery of the faulty item back to Wootware.

Geewiz: https://www.geewiz.co.za/content/7-returns-and-warranty
Should the item being returned for assessment be found to be in good working order, unfortunately, there will be a collection fee that will apply.
The collection fees are as follows:

- For returns on items that were sent with free shipping: R198

- For items that had a courier surcharge, the same surcharge will apply to the courier costs, both ways.

ALL returns are subject to up to a 30% restocking fee if item is no longer in BRAND NEW condition or if item seal/packaging has been broken.

(Note from personal experience: Geewiz is willing to negotiate these fees and in some circumstances completely waive them if it is reasonable. Just make sure to escalate the issue as the support staff is just following protocol and ask for management in the department to review it. I have always found them to be reasonable and open to discussion, for that reason I HIGHLY recommend them. Communication and attitude is everything).

Progenix (@Progenix Oj101 ) : https://progenix.co.za/Delivery-and-Returns
Products which are NOT defective or damaged but which you want to return for whatever reason must be returned within eight (8) calendar days from date of receipt of the goods. The products must be returned to our door at your own cost.

Should an opened/unsealed product be returned, a handling fee of up to 25% may be charged.

If you find that your product is defective or faulty, we will repair, replace or provide a full refund (less any delivery costs)

Takealot: never been charged penalties or delivery costs if within specified time period and good condition. Need to make sure every single item is in the package. If it is big system you installed, such as camera system, good luck!
Amazon: never been charged penalties or delivery costs if within specified time period and good condition. Only returned small items.

 

[hellfire]

Evetech: https://www.evetech.co.za/returns-and-exchange-policy/x/1641
......return the product within seven days of delivery for a full refund, excluding shipping costs. To qualify for a full refund, the product must be unopened, and returned with all original packaging and materials

For opened products, a re-stocking fee of up to 25% may apply......

.......If you encounter a faulty item, please contact us, and we will guide you through the return process. In such cases, the customer is responsible for arranging the shipment.........

Wootware: https://www.wootware.co.za/terms
...........returned within seven days of the delivery for a full refund, less the shipping costs. Should an opened product be returned, a re-stocking fee of up to 25% will be charged.

Should you have a faulty item, contact us and we'll assist you by providing you with the details for the return process. In this case, the customer will be responsible for arranging delivery of the faulty item back to Wootware.

Geewiz: https://www.geewiz.co.za/content/7-returns-and-warranty
Should the item being returned for assessment be found to be in good working order, unfortunately, there will be a collection fee that will apply.
The collection fees are as follows:

- For returns on items that were sent with free shipping: R198

- For items that had a courier surcharge, the same surcharge will apply to the courier costs, both ways.

ALL returns are subject to up to a 30% restocking fee if item is no longer in BRAND NEW condition or if item seal/packaging has been broken.

(Note from personal experience: Geewiz is willing to negotiate these fees and in some circumstances completely waive them if it is reasonable. Just make sure to escalate the issue as the support staff is just following protocol and ask for management in the department to review it. I have always found them to be reasonable and open to discussion, for that reason I HIGHLY recommend them. Communication and attitude is everything).

Progenix (@Progenix Oj101 ) : https://progenix.co.za/Delivery-and-Returns
Products which are NOT defective or damaged but which you want to return for whatever reason must be returned within eight (8) calendar days from date of receipt of the goods. The products must be returned to our door at your own cost.

Should an opened/unsealed product be returned, a handling fee of up to 25% may be charged.

If you find that your product is defective or faulty, we will repair, replace or provide a full refund (less any delivery costs)

Takealot: never been charged penalties or delivery costs if within specified time period and good condition. Need to make sure every single item is in the package. If it is big system you installed, such as camera system, good luck!
Amazon: never been charged penalties or delivery costs if within specified time period and good condition. Only returned small items.

Was about to defend Geewiz when you defended them yourself.
I've always found them to be very fair.

 

[RedViking]

To be honest I am not sure how Takealot and Amazon does it. I know it takes years before they are profitable.

 

[The Darkness]

To be honest I am not sure how Takealot and Amazon does it. I know it takes years before they are profitable.

It's simple economics and prediction. Not all people will return a product, and not all products are going to break. So they see the returns cycle as a loss-leader and the gains from people feeling safe and comfortable to buy something and try without pressure or loss most often draws them to these merchants, and 90% of the time the sale sticks.

 

[Roo!]

When buying from a 3rd party seller on Amazon you are responsible for returning it to the seller, at your cost. On TAL that is not the case and it all goes through them.

 

[Progenix Oj101]

These shops often also make you pay for the shipping and it is usually an inflated set price , like R200, while normally it would cost R70

It's generally because the cost to you is subsidized, while you returning something can't be subsidized. I'll use myself as an example:

• You buy a cooler
• Courier to you is R 165, but you get charged R 119
• The difference of R 46 comes out of margin on the cooler
• You return the cooler, still sealed, because you realized you bought a 420mm AIO and while stripping your PC you realized your case only supports up to 280mm
• There is no margin to cover the R 46 as you're being refunded for the cooler
• You get charged R 165 for the return, which is still a net loss on the sale of R 46

I would assume they get cheaper rates

You have to be massive to get better rates. My bill is a quite far into the 5-digit figures each month, and I pay the same as you would sending a single parcel every few months.

With margins being so tight , does it actually cover everything

No, it doesn't. The only time courier costs me less than you pay is when it's a local flyer bag. Those extra R 20s that local small orders pay get "used" to cover return fees. Using the above example, if your cooler dies within 6 months, there's a further R 165 x 2 courier fees I have to cover - there isn't a cooler with margin high enough to cover the R 330, and it has eaten all margin from the original sale AND SOME.

I ran the numbers about a year ago, and courier fees balance out almost perfectly, with the final figure being a net loss of below 0.5% at the time.

Also think the restock fee should not be more than 10%, anything more is ridiculous

It's a tough one to work out - would you be happy paying "only" 10% less for a cooler that has been opened and installed, even if never powered on? You're going to need to buy new thermal paste as well, as the cooler was installed and the original paste was wiped off (or the store has to chuck in a new tube at their cost).

Distributors almost never accept opened returns, so the store could be sitting with it for weeks/months/years until it gets sold as open box. When distributors DO accept open returns, they normally go all-in with the handling fee (it can greatly exceed 25% - there's no ceiling as you'd find under the CPA when it's B2B).

I've completely written off a number of returned items because they weren't popular items and hadn't sold after 6+ months. That's money being written off through no fault of mine other than accepting returns that, from a CPA perspective, didn't need to be accepted. I try to view returns from a consumer's point of view as much as possible, as I'm also a consumer, but sometimes it's just not feasible or possible.

For items that goes into your ears and nose and other holes, a higher restocking fee is acceptable. Gross!

No sies. Those may be denied outright for hygienic reasons.

Return should be free and a refund to bank account should be given, swiftly.

Larger companies often work on billing cycles, it can be a life or death situation and all they can do is schedule a payment to go off with the next cycle.

If you find that your product is defective or faulty, we will repair, replace or provide a full refund (less any delivery costs)

Delivery cost only - not return cost. Return isn't on you.

To be honest I am not sure how Takealot and Amazon does it. I know it takes years before they are profitable.

They make a sickening amount of margin. They more often than not make around 9% more margin than anyone else by negotiating bulk deals, and then ON TOP OF THAT get rebates of 5-8%. Where a store the size of almost everyone you mentioned in post 9 is making 5%, Takealot and Amazon are making 15-25% (accounting for rebates) while selling at the same price.

I think that covers everything

 

[Progenix Oj101]

Unrelated, but to add to how courier bills hurt... I received an incomplete delivery today, I now have to arrange a second courier from the distributor to the customer, entirely at my cost, at an additional R 165, instead of the two items being send together.

It's a R 703 order including the R 119 the customer paid for delivery... My delivery fee is going to total R 165 x 2 = R 330.

With the single delivery fee, this order was already a R 16 loss due to subsidized courier fees. With this second delivery fee, it's a R 181 loss. I'd have been R 180 better off had the customer not ordered at all.

Such is life

 

[Lupus]

Wootware, they will fix your defective item under warranty if it complies with the warranty rules BUT you have to send the item to them which means you pay the courier charge...

Ugh fair enough I guess, I'm sure most if not all shops just say, "send the item to us"

I've never had to pay to send back to Wootware

 

[Tongs of Destiny]

I've never had to pay to send back to Wootware

So how on earth did your pc part get to Wootware?

 

[Lupus]

So how on earth did your pc part get to Wootware?

They sent a courier, he picked it up and it appeared at their offices

 

[Ecco]

Feel sorry for the smaller players. But if prices are similar, most people will go with big players where a return is a complicated as a few clicks.

 

[Progenix Oj101]

Feel sorry for the smaller players. But if prices are similar, most people will go with big players where a return is a complicated as a few clicks.

There's space for both to co-exist. You won't get pre-sales support from Takealot, nor will you get after-sales support other than "log a return."