Home Affairs minister defends digital ID rollout in South Africa

[dualmeister]

South Africa is run

Into the ground yes.

 

[deweyzeph]

Newsflash: your ID has been digitally stored on Home Affairs' servers for almost 50 years already. Your biometrics have been collected and digitally stored for almost 30 years already. Wake up and take off your tin foil hats.

 

[quovadis]

Q defending the establishment as usual. Anyway, not really worried about this establishment either getting anything complex off the ground or making proper use of it, so who cares

(And waste of money is their speciality, so that much would happen anyway....)

It's defending the establishment to point out common sense? Happy to be challenged with actual concerns if you have one.

 

[Bad Ballie]

Imho banks and a few entities are already verifying identities through home affairs digitally using your ID number and biometrics as reference. I'm sure each of those enquiries are logged so this appears to be a similar thing whether they implement a digital ID or not - at least for those freaking about about privacy...

Another reason that the state is pushing for the end of cash, they can't control the cash industry

Newsflash: your ID has been digitally stored on Home Affairs' servers for almost 50 years already. Your biometrics have been collected and digitally stored for almost 30 years already. Wake up and take off your tin foil hats.

Thanks confirming that you have no idea what the new digital system entails or what it will be collecting.

 

[quovadis]

Another reason that the state is pushing for the end of cash, they can't control the cash industry

Cash will always be around. Even that's changing slowly. There's a small vendor that sells home-made textile items near a park I go to. Asked if I was interested, I said I am but don't have any cash. She whipped out a small payment device and I tapped and I was on my way.

Thanks confirming that you have no idea what the new digital system entails or what it will be collecting.

In fairness if the main concern is your data being stolen it's a valid comment. Besides biometric data though, it's collecting everything that you'd ordinarily put on the application form and have to update with home affairs anyway? Beyond that it's just who transacted using your ID and keeping any of the aforementioned data you updated in sync?

 

[deweyzeph]

Another reason that the state is pushing for the end of cash, they can't control the cash industry

Thanks confirming that you have no idea what the new digital system entails or what it will be collecting.

It's all being collected already, every day, ever since computers were invented. There is nothing the Digital ID is going to do that isn't already being done.

 

[Bad Ballie]

It's all being collected already, every day, ever since computers were invented. There is nothing the Digital ID is going to do that isn't already being done.

My reply remains the same.

 

[Gudnews]

Belong to Afriforum - Cancellation of Digital ID
Belong to OUTA - Suspension of Digital ID
Post conspiracy theory on MyBB - Suspension of Digital ID
...

Oh! You went there. God bless.

 

[Bad Ballie]

The same broad powers exist with ID cards. There is case law governing this - the same would apply whether it's plastic or digital.

This is more like audit logs relating to when your Digital ID was used to verify your identity. Not every transaction linked to your ID number... so open a bank account, store account etc.

Seriously? These organizations require ID to signup? If anything that should be questioned...

The sync is in respect of change in address, telephone etc which you're supposed to update in any case - not transactional data.

The system collects the data anyway, it will be abused by government at some point, the Chinese system ours is based on already proves that your every move can and could be recorded. 'Smart cities' in China already link everything from unlocking your front door to starting your car to the ID card which also allows you to enter or leave restricted areas. The question isn't what it does now, the question is what it will be capable of in a year or two's time and whether the state can be trusted with that power.

 

[Tim_vb]

Government Digital ID is not required to prevent fraud.

UK government's plan for a mandatory digital ID was effectively rejected and abandoned following massive public backlash.
Switzerland - rejected in March 2021 referendum.
Australia - rejected due to public pressure.
New Zealand, Canada, and the United States public have repeatedly pushed back against centralized national digital IDs.

UK, Switzerland, Austrlia, New Zeland, Canada, US, etc all have low levels of fraud and don't have digital ID.
How come they don't have fraud?


Your definition of "rest of the world" == Communist China, Communist Vietnam which have Digital ID
My definition of "rest of the world" == Free UK, Switzerland, Austrlia, New Zeland, Canada, US which have rejected Digital ID.

all this already happening today and is pushed hard by your beloved "five eyes". This idea that surveillance can't happen without a properly implemented open digital ID is absurd. This is the reason why Palentr etc exist

 

[Brian_G]

all this already happening today and is pushed hard by your beloved "five eyes". This idea that surveillance can't happen without a properly implemented open digital ID is absurd. This is the reason why Palentr etc exist

Maybe move to China

 

[Slckrck]

Maybe move to China

The thing is everything that's being tested in China eventually finds its way west as well. Whether it looks the same or not, it functions the same.

Surveillance and facial recognition was so heavily criticised when China went hard in in that in 2007-2013, now you have not even the state but private companies doing it in the land of the freedumz. Flock, Palantir etc. have all these government contracts without the government's control mechanism, the voters..... When "western" authorities criticise China, they aren't criticising the idea, their problem is that it's state run and owned instead of capitalist enterprise.

Besides that, everyone that is freaking out about security, privacy and control, hands out all their information willy nilly to every half baked app and social platform without reading the Terms and conditions first. So what's with the performative outrage just because American conspiracy theories are spread around like it's truth?

 

[Brian_G]

The thing is everything that's being tested in China eventually finds its way west as well. Whether it looks the same or not, it functions the same.

Surveillance and facial recognition was so heavily criticised when China went hard in in that in 2007-2013, now you have not even the state but private companies doing it in the land of the freedumz. Flock, Palantir etc. have all these government contracts without the government's control mechanism, the voters..... When "western" authorities criticise China, they aren't criticising the idea, their problem is that it's state run and owned instead of capitalist enterprise.

Besides that, everyone that is freaking out about security, privacy and control, hands out all their information willy nilly to every half baked app and social platform without reading the Terms and conditions first. So what's with the performative outrage just because American conspiracy theories are spread around like it's truth?

Bottom line is that politicians can't be trusted, not ever. Perhaps one or two individuals only. History is absolutely riddled with examples, and without exception long term.
Don't give them more control

In SA - take away as much control as we can.

 

[Slckrck]

Bottom line is that politicians can't be trusted, not ever. Perhaps one or two individuals only. History is absolutely riddled with examples, and without exception long term.
Don't give them more control

True, but neither can CEOs, yet you trust Mark Zuckerberg enough to give him access to all your communications. And Jan desperately wants to hand Elon his internet traffic

 

[Brian_G]

I stopped believing in Elon when he started mumbling about "one million satellites" - complete nutter!

(He wants that for his AI network empire in the sky now.)

 

[Slckrck]

I stopped believing in Elon when he started mumbling about "one million satellites" - complete nutter!

(He wants that for his AI network empire in the sky now.)

The booitjie lost it when everyone started comparing him to Tony Stark. Ever since has been looney toone

Data centers in space is his latest befok spêl.

 

[Swa]

When we wrote the original design, the aim was that although Home Affairs issues the digital ID, you control it, and over time the ability for companies to check via home affairs for a fee will be wiped out. As such the ownership goes to you, including eventually all your other documents. So if you goto a bank, and they want to confirm your details, you have to authorise them having access to it going forward, same for applying for loans etc. All that home affairs would really tell them is that you are the actual user, and not share your details etc with them.

Especially after we discovered how bad the leaks are where the credit bureaus are happily selling your sellings to every tom, dick and harry pretty much.

So the idea is to eliminate that where you would be either green or red when using another service.

And this is how it should be. Every transaction should be authorised by you and then only the portion that's necessary. But besides for this most fraud are insiders and this isn't necessary to prevent fraud with proper double verification systems but as we saw with WASPs and the cellphone networks enabling them this isn't something that happens. What we need is better protection when fraud happens.

As per your scenario most banks either accept a general power of attorney or have a special power of attorney for such. I cannot speak for capitec but at least ABSA and Nedbank make provisions for providing access to a person with power of attorney using their own identity.

Capitec has real time identification in the app. You can't disable it and the nearest you can get is not enabling it which throws a nagging screen on every visit. I enabled mine under the guise it would only be for high risk activities but now it keeps asking every time I go onto the web. As if the system can't see I primarily use the web for transactions so it's not high risk.

 

[Tim_vb]

Government Digital ID is not required to prevent fraud.

UK government's plan for a mandatory digital ID was effectively rejected and abandoned following massive public backlash.
Switzerland - rejected in March 2021 referendum.
Australia - rejected due to public pressure.
New Zealand, Canada, and the United States public have repeatedly pushed back against centralized national digital IDs.

UK, Switzerland, Austrlia, New Zeland, Canada, US, etc all have low levels of fraud and don't have digital ID.
How come they don't have fraud?


Your definition of "rest of the world" == Communist China, Communist Vietnam which have Digital ID
My definition of "rest of the world" == Free UK, Switzerland, Austrlia, New Zeland, Canada, US which have rejected Digital ID.

Its amazing whats on the internet these days - seems the "5 eyes" on board with a digital identity.

The Australian Government’s official digital identity app is myID (formerly known as myGovID), which allows you to securely verify your identity and access government services online. You can set it up by downloading the app and verifying two Australian identity documents, such as your passport, driver's licence, or Medicare card. [1, 2, 3, 4]

Key Digital ID Services

• myID App: The primary Australian Government Digital ID app used to prove who you are securely online without repeatedly sharing physical documents. [1, 2]
• myGov: The central platform to access various government services (like Centrelink, the ATO, or Medicare). You can connect your myID to seamlessly log into your myGov account. [1, 2]
• Digital ID System: A broader government framework ensuring secure, accredited digital authentication across public and private sector services. [1, 2, 3, 4]

Common Physical Identity Documents
If you need to establish your identity for government services, employment, or background checks, you can use combinations of these accepted documents:

 

[system32]

As per your scenario most banks either accept a general power of attorney or have a special power of attorney for such. I cannot speak for capitec but at least ABSA and Nedbank make provisions for providing access to a person with power of attorney using their own identity.

For capitec, the POA only works in-branch.
On the web or on the App, it does Home-Affairs Face ID for login rendering the POA useless.
Capitec does not have the concept of multiple user profiles connected to one account.
Some banks allow multiple user profiles to access the same bank account - like a POA with audit logs and the login is not shared.