Solar generation in rain/cloudy conditions

wingnut771 said:
Our argument is that the test button is more than suffienct to test the basics.
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Yes I'm aware of that, so that's why I'm saying it simply isn't possible at all based on what the test button does.
 
To explain further, If you don't have a functional unbroken earth back to the source of power, a kind of return to sender, the E/L isn't going to do jack****.

With Eskom you are lucky in that you (and your neighbours etc.) have that return to sender. Throw in an independent source (e.g. Inverter ) without that earth loop the E/L will never trip.
Give it the neutral bond and it will.

The way I explain it is with a diagram of two concentric circles. The middle circle has a simple circuit diagram with a battery, switch and light. The outer is unbroken with only a link to the negative of the battery.
You then can show that any line, anywhere from the middle circle can get back to the negative unhindered. That then unbalances the E/L causing it to trip.

mV's etc. are just specs basically and show how good your earth connection actually is.

If that makes sense.
 
Düber said:
To explain further, If you don't have a functional unbroken earth back to the source of power, a kind of return to sender, the E/L isn't going to do jack****.

With Eskom you are lucky in that you (and your neighbours etc.) have that return to sender. Throw in an independent source (e.g. Inverter ) without that earth loop the E/L will never trip.
Give it the neutral bond and it will.

The way I explain it is with a diagram of two concentric circles. The middle circle has a simple circuit diagram with a battery, switch and light. The outer is unbroken with only a link to the negative of the battery.
You then can show that any line, anywhere from the middle circle can get back to the negative unhindered. That then unbalances the E/L causing it to trip.

mV's etc. are just specs basically and show how good your earth connection actually is.

If that makes sense.
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Tldr
No need to explain. Either the inverter comes with a relay or it doesn’t.

K.i.s.s.
 
PhireSide said:
Nee man :(

View attachment 1917335
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**** me, I almost gave up looking for this post and almost tagged that other guy that starts with a p, but in hind sight, would have errored out as he’s in uk now but I thought I would try and use my super power of letting people see there is someone more ****ed up than them which ends up have a sort of edifying effect, well here goes.
If you are in Cape Town, June is only half of march so far:
IMG_6635.jpeg
Did that cheer you up?
 


4,4kw array (8x550), with 2x5kwh batts. We had heavy mist yesterday in CPT. 1782532319050.png
Production peaked at 1.78kW at around 1pm
6am was sandwich press
8am was washing machine and geyser
10:30 was probably microwave

Can you over-panel the Deye inverters?
 
Düber said:
Just my 2c worth. I was curious and I wanted to see what that button actually does so I opened an old E/L. All the button does is short out the live and neutral.
The live after the "breaker" section to the neutral before it.
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I had assumed it creates a leakage current between live/neutral to earth on the output.

Sounds like it just just tests the coil which is useless for what we wanted to achieve.

Because I’m a cheapskate I would just take a light bulb and connect it on a multiplug across the live or neutral to earth and turn on the switch. Earth leakage should trip if all is good.

Spending 500 rand for something that will never get used again for something the electrician should have done is a no lol.
 
wingnut771 said:
What do you do if it fails?
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Then you have to look were could be the problem.

Contact supplier and find out how Earth-Neutral bond works on there inverter.

I have seen it with my own eye when I have load shedding council does not give then earth neutral bonding.
Then you need to make a plan. Not boer maak 'n plan nie.

Mine works fine till power returns, minute or so no earth-neutral bonding.
It could be from council side or inverter. Never found out.
 
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HowTo said:
Yes it will destroy the inverter at the end.
Why would you do it anyway.
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An MPPT has a voltage and current rating. MPPT can control the current and because most systems are series current is not something to worry about.

What it can’t control is the voltage. So stay within the voltage rating and you are fine. I am overpanneled by almost 600W. Zero issues.
 
HowTo said:
I have seen it with my own eye when I have load shedding council does not give then earth neutral bonding.
Then you need to make a plan. Not boer maak 'n plan nie.
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This we ascertained. And you can still get neutral earth bonding even during a power outage but only if the power was cut on the HV side of the substation. If the LV breaker is still closed you will get it. During loadshedding as you say they would kill the LV breaker so yeah, you won’t get anything from them.

We were talking about the TEST button on the ELCB. Which Duber said won’t really work for what we wanted to do as it only shorts live and neutral through a resistor it seems which is useless for testing the bonding.

If it created a path between neutral or live to earth on the output then it would have been sufficient. But it seems it doesn’t.
 
I guess we could have remembered that the test button wouldn't have been able to test by correctly using a path to earth, since there's only a L and N connection to it, no E.

Ellies surge plugs also have the 3 light indication which seems maybe similar to the earth leakage test setup posted earlier, just without the additional functionality of being able to test the earth leakage. https://www.amazon.co.za/Ellies-250...targid=pla-2455233038304&psc=1&language=en_ZA if anybody wants to do a quick test with something they probably already have lying around the house.

If there's no earth neutral bond, neutral should float up to some voltage around 110V though, so measuring voltage between neutral and earth during islanding should still be a good test of whether or not your earth neutral bond is working.
 
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Lupus said:
Sigh weekend clouds again
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Sucks. And everything and everyone is using power my side. From the gardener to the cleaner. Dishwasher and washing machine running simultaneously also with the garder using the blower and cutter.

Of all days😒
 
denmendez65 said:
Sucks. And everything and everyone is using power my side. From the gardener to the cleaner. Dishwasher and washing machine running simultaneously also with the garder using the blower and cutter.

Of all days
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Yeah, almost the same
 
1am7h30n3 said:
I guess we could have remembered that the test button wouldn't have been able to test by correctly using a path to earth, since there's only a L and N connection to it, no E.

Ellies surge plugs also have the 3 light indication which seems maybe similar to the earth leakage test setup posted earlier, just without the additional functionality of being able to test the earth leakage. https://www.amazon.co.za/Ellies-250...targid=pla-2455233038304&psc=1&language=en_ZA if anybody wants to do a quick test with something they probably already have lying around the house.

If there's no earth neutral bond, neutral should float up to some voltage around 110V though, so measuring voltage between neutral and earth during islanding should still be a good test of whether or not your earth neutral bond is working.
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I just did a test on the Omnivolt which is a SRNE inverter and there is 2 mess ups I made there based on assumptions.

The inverter doesn’t have a neutral to earth bond relay. Second problem is it doesn’t have a relay to disconnect the neutral when in inverter mode. Basically the neutral from the output of the inverter and input are permanently bonded.

And that’s why I like this forum among others. There is always something to learn.

I’m not spending 1.8k or whatever it was on a stupid box with a relay personally so using a contactor. First pole will isolate the neutral of the inverter from my other inverter.

Second pole will make the neutral to earth connection for it. The contactor is only 170 rand and will sit in the DB.

IMG_1919.jpeg
 
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