How much money do you earn? And how do you spend it?

TheMightyQuin said:
No I'm not trying to buy a SA house in the NL. I just have zero interest retiring here, so why would I buy an overpriced house here???

And who wants to live in a shithole like Belgium when you can live in rural France?
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Where would you like to retire? Rural France sounds like a vibe.
 
thethirdman said:
I'm 40 years and taken a while to get here, but living expenses adding up quick, currently still in South Africa.

Unfortunately can't just go crazy and buy anything as can be seen with below, if we cut back on a few line items, there is more freely available cash flow

Tax sits at just over 50k a month

Medical 15k - from CTC
Prov fund 20k - from CTC
Primary School - 13k
Groceries - 15k
Insurance - 4.5k
Car - 10k
House - 20k
Utilities, water, lights - 5k
Security, Fibre, Netflix, Youtube etc - R2k
Savings, Tax free, kids savings etc - R5k
Entertainment, restaurants, gym etc - R8k
Domestic, Garden - R5k
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No spouse helping out with some of the expenses? Also, I love how few people still have DStv.
 
thethirdman said:
I'm 40 years and taken a while to get here, but living expenses adding up quick, currently still in South Africa.

Unfortunately can't just go crazy and buy anything as can be seen with below, if we cut back on a few line items, there is more freely available cash flow

Tax sits at just over 50k a month

Medical 15k - from CTC
Prov fund 20k - from CTC
Primary School - 13k
Groceries - 15k
Insurance - 4.5k
Car - 10k
House - 20k
Utilities, water, lights - 5k
Security, Fibre, Netflix, Youtube etc - R2k
Savings, Tax free, kids savings etc - R5k
Entertainment, restaurants, gym etc - R8k
Domestic, Garden - R5k
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My equivalents:
Medical 2k - from CTC (-13)
Prov fund 21k - from CTC (+1)
Primary School - 0k (-13)
Groceries - 4k (-11)
Insurance - 1.5k (-3)
Car - 0k (-10)
House - 5k (-15)
Utilities, water, lights - 4k (-1)
Security, Fibre, Netflix, Youtube etc - 1k (-1)
Entertainment, restaurants, gym etc - 5k (-3)
Domestic, Garden - 2k (-3)
Net lower spending: (-72)

Investments, tax-free, RA: 66.5k
 
CUZ_458 said:
How do you manage to spend R6k on padel ??
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Those are exceptional months, typically when I take leave. Most months its closer to R3k.

But high months.
6 to 10 games a week at R150
2 to 3 social tournaments at R150
1 to 2 tubes of balls a week at R150 each.

Most months its
1 tube of balls a week R150
3 games R150 each
2 socials R150 each

Above varies a little depending on court
 
Ecko_1 said:
Those are exceptional months, typically when I take leave. Most months its closer to R3k.

But high months.
6 to 10 games a week at R150
2 to 3 social tournaments at R150
1 to 2 tubes of balls a week at R150 each.

Most months its
1 tube of balls a week R150
3 games R150 each
2 socials R150 each

Above varies a little depending on court
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Damn...

I need to fill in my swimming pool and put up a padel court in my backyard..
 
thethirdman said:
I'm 40 years and taken a while to get here, but living expenses adding up quick, currently still in South Africa.

Unfortunately can't just go crazy and buy anything as can be seen with below, if we cut back on a few line items, there is more freely available cash flow

Tax sits at just over 50k a month

Medical 15k - from CTC
Prov fund 20k - from CTC
Primary School - 13k
Groceries - 15k
Insurance - 4.5k
Car - 10k
House - 20k
Utilities, water, lights - 5k
Security, Fibre, Netflix, Youtube etc - R2k
Savings, Tax free, kids savings etc - R5k
Entertainment, restaurants, gym etc - R8k
Domestic, Garden - R5k
Click to expand...
Jeesh, I could never spend 10k a month on a car I am way to frugal, I got a decent cheapie all paid off.

Let's say 2k on petrol and 8k into the bond that reduces the home loan by half 9.8 years instead of twenty.

The longest I have paid off a house was 6 years, leaving me 14 years to add my bond repayment to retirement. At the end of 20 years my net wealth will be 3 times then just paying off the house considering a 16 percent return per year but could be 17/18 depending on investment.
 
TheMightyQuin said:
No I'm not trying to buy a SA house in the NL. I just have zero interest retiring here, so why would I buy an overpriced house here???

And who wants to live in a shithole like Belgium when you can live in rural France?
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Why do you want to live in a Muslim country?

TheMightyQuin said:
Nah, France is nearly a complete Muslim country...so this is closer to home for their struggle.
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TheMightyQuin said:
No I'm not trying to buy a SA house in the NL. I just have zero interest retiring here, so why would I buy an overpriced house here???

And who wants to live in a shithole like Belgium when you can live in rural France?
Click to expand...

Overpriced, sure. But by saying you can only buy 3bed houses for close to a million euros is disingenuous and downright dishonest. Property prices are overblown everywhere though. I get the romance though, we already looked at something similar, but figured we'd get a foot in the door in the property market first.

To each their own, but don't take hope away from others by spewing your own dissociation and justification as facts please.
 
Y'all Qaeda said:
Overpriced, sure. But by saying you can only buy 3bed houses for close to a million euros is disingenuous and downright dishonest. Property prices are overblown everywhere though. I get the romance though, we already looked at something similar, but figured we'd get a foot in the door in the property market first.

To each their own, but don't take hope away from others by spewing your own dissociation and justification as facts please.
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Spewing??

Oh please. Are you upset because I told the truth about the ridiculous Dutch property market.

And what hope am I taking away? You sound like you buy property based on your emotions and maybe are bamboozled by tulips and canals? Buying property is for grownups...it has nothing to do with a twinkle in the eyes.

It's about comparing apples with apples.

Go on Funda and show me what you can buy in the Netherlands for €275k.

I can show you what I can buy for that same amount in France. Where you do not get involved in bidding wars either and can usually come in at €225k and get the buy.

The same amount will be bid up to more than €300k in the Netherlands.

PS. I'm sure you can get a 3 bedroom 1.5 bathroom in the Netherlands for less than €1bar...but that is not the actual point I was trying to make. If you want to overpay for a little place like that, be my guest.

ALL property in the NL is overpriced and terrible value.
 
Wikus_Rikus said:
Blinked and another year passed!

We had a good busy year, gross up by 6% and bonus up in line with base, puts us at just shy of R4m. Taxman takes between 30 and 40% of that though and tax is now by far the largest expense category and close to 2x our expenses.

monthly:
Food (Groceries + eating out): R18.5k
Home (Household expenses, Utilities, levies, domestic help, home insurance): R15k
Medical: R8.5k.
Transport (Petrol, Ubers, maintenance, insurance): R7k
Pets: R6k
Communications (Internet and cells): R1k
Entertainment (clothing, gym, travel, entertainment, gifts etc): R7.5k
Total: R63.5k pm
generally inflationary increases, but more on the food/eating out side, less on others.
Pets getting really old and sickly. Our own medical we spent a lot more (not sickly, just Med Aid actually covers nothing) but was all via the savings we'd built up over the years. Hopefully not a recurring issue, otherwise will hit the expenses line.

Need to replace the cars (pretty old now close to 15y), got cash for when the time comes. Putting aside cash for a new home too, in case we want that.

Total savings were around R1.8m for the year, NW at R32.5m off back of decent investment growth since last year and the savings. Our WR would be around 2.5% now against investment assets which does give financial comfort.

Overall, happy in SA, glad to have family and friends around, and really trying to enjoy work and challenges, rather than stressing or focussing on SA issues.
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Gross income + bonus over R4m now plsu some other incentives have come online that will see stock options pay another another R2.5m. NW has crossed R40m now. Withdrawal rate would be 2.3% now, total expenses at R70k per month which is mostly same as above plus inflation food, medical aid, levies, insurance, petrol/transport. Still old car and small home but we choose this lifestyle for flexibility and optionality, and are financially strong enough that wife doesn't work, but do want to deliberately make some house and car changes. Focus is on making my own work more enjoyable, rather than just chasing performance-based remuneration.
 
What would you say is a good retirement pot for a 2 income middle class couple in SA these days?
 
Wikus_Rikus said:
Gross income + bonus over R4m now plsu some other incentives have come online that will see stock options pay another another R2.5m. NW has crossed R40m now. Withdrawal rate would be 2.3% now, total expenses at R70k per month which is mostly same as above plus inflation food, medical aid, levies, insurance, petrol/transport. Still old car and small home but we choose this lifestyle for flexibility and optionality, and are financially strong enough that wife doesn't work, but do want to deliberately make some house and car changes. Focus is on making my own work more enjoyable, rather than just chasing performance-based remuneration.
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Saving is good, but it's also pointless saving all that money for the last 10-20 years of your life. Enjoy some of it too...
 
etienne_marais said:
The rule of thumb is apparently R1 million Rand for each R5000 that you want/"have to" to spend per month.
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I know the math's but what would you say is the magic number for the avg middle class? 10 , 20, 40 , 80 million by 60?

I am aiming for 40.
 
GrootVoet said:
I know the math's but what would you say is the magic number for the avg middle class? 10 , 20, 40 , 80 million by 60?

I am aiming for 40.
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Well at a strictly 4% rule, that would be whatever your expenses are expected to be or at when you retire, youd be good for 30 years at 95% probability (assuming diversified globally 50/50 bonds and equities).


So if you spend R1m per annum, you'd need R25m in investments and be very safe for a 30 year retirement at age 65.


Also, completely depends what you define as middle class in South Africa. Middle class by Western standards or Middle class by SA measurements are worlds apart.
 
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