'They came with machetes' - deadline looms for migrants to leave South Africa

Sideshow Bob said:
Not likely if Zim is flooded with such elite artisans that can insert zipper but I know many Zim guys go back during school holidays.
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Just wondering, if South African employers value all the qualifications, skills and experience, shouldn't they have actually taken a proactive stance to assist their guys to be documented way before all this nyakanyaka started?

Unless being undocumented suited them just fine, I mean why pay more for all the qualifications, skills and experience if you can get it for a steal from an undocumented migrant?
 
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TheChamp said:
Just wondering, if South African employers value all the qualifications, skills and experience, shouldn't they have actually taken a proactive stance to assist their guys to be documented way before all this nyakanyaka started?

Unless being undocumented suited them just fine, I mean why pay more for all the qualifications, skills and experience of you can get it for a steal from an undocumented migrant?
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Still plenty of Saffers with a "Who will pick the cotton if we free the slaves" mentality :(
 
TheChamp said:
Just wondering, if South African employers value all the qualifications, skills and experience, shouldn't they have actually taken a proactive stance to assist their guys to be documented way before all this nyakanyaka started?

Unless being undocumented suited them just fine, I mean why pay more for all the qualifications, skills and experience of you can get it for a steal from an undocumented migrant?
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It depends. Some Seffrican employers would benefit from having illegals at their disposal because then illegals can be paid very low and in cash. No registration required for UIF etc and everyone flies under radar.

So, R100K fine is a good start.

Of course, it will be nice if government is less corrupt but since they are locals, it is all good even if it is probably trillions rands of corruption.
 
TheChamp said:
Just wondering, if South African employers value all the qualifications, skills and experience, shouldn't they have actually taken a proactive stance to assist their guys to be documented way before all this nyakanyaka started?

Unless being undocumented suited them just fine, I mean why pay more for all the qualifications, skills and experience of you can get it for a steal from an undocumented migrant?
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He fails to say in what. It is likely building "trades". Well experienced bricklayers.

We aren't losing much. Any South African can learn to build in 2 days.
 
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Spizz said:
I’ve worked in several in construction for periods of 3 months to 2 years . I’ve also visited several countries for a week or two to audit local subcontractors who would work for us on these construction sites.

Countries I’ve spent real time in are…

Senegal
Sierra Leone
Liberia
Togo
Ghana
Nigeria
Cameroon
Egypt
Chad
Ethiopia
Zambia

I was on the Rovos Rail last year and we stopped at Bloemfontein station. If you want to see what the rest of Africa is like, go visit there for a good idea. I thought I was back in Lagos.
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@ShaunSA - see ? Not everyone stays in phoenix forever.
 
TheChamp said:
Just wondering, if South African employers value all the qualifications, skills and experience, shouldn't they have actually taken a proactive stance to assist their guys to be documented way before all this nyakanyaka started?

Unless being undocumented suited them just fine, I mean why pay more for all the qualifications, skills and experience of you can get it for a steal from an undocumented migrant?
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The way I see it is this:

For the employer, there is often very little incentive to help undocumented workers regularise their status(even if pretending to do so). Once those workers become legal, they gain rights and protections, making them much harder to exploit or manipulate.

For the undocumented people, survival comes first. Poverty, fear, and uncertainty mean that keeping a low profile feels like the safest option. Many become trapped in the belief that trying to legalise their stay will only bring more problems than solutions, even when that may not always be the case.

Then there are politicians and opportunists. For some, protests and moments of unrest become opportunities to advance their own agendas rather than genuinely address the underlying issues.

In the end, it's often the people with legitimate concerns who lose out. Their voices are drowned out or their struggles are hijacked, while the real problems remain unresolved.

And for the love of everything, the best and worst thing that could have happened is social media, It is very good for mobilizing people but it has led to a people who don't stop to think but just believe anything. It makes it difficult for the average person to sift through the information.
 
Stinkbeaver said:
The way I see it is this:

For the employer, there is often very little incentive to help undocumented workers regularise their status(even if pretending to do so). Once those workers become legal, they gain rights and protections, making them much harder to exploit or manipulate.

For the undocumented people, survival comes first. Poverty, fear, and uncertainty mean that keeping a low profile feels like the safest option. Many become trapped in the belief that trying to legalise their stay will only bring more problems than solutions, even when that may not always be the case.

Then there are politicians and opportunists. For some, protests and moments of unrest become opportunities to advance their own agendas rather than genuinely address the underlying issues.

In the end, it's often the people with legitimate concerns who lose out. Their voices are drowned out or their struggles are hijacked, while the real problems remain unresolved.

And for the love of everything, the best and worst thing that could have happened is social media, It is very good for mobilizing people but it has led to a people who don't stop to think but just believe anything. It makes it difficult for the average person to sift through the information.
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There is another reason. The employers investment into getting an foreigner legalised could just disappear in a puff of smoke when he walks out the door to find other employment. Once legal, there are many other options to persue.
 
Stinkbeaver said:
The way I see it is this:

For the employer, there is often very little incentive to help undocumented workers regularise their status(even if pretending to do so). Once those workers become legal, they gain rights and protections, making them much harder to exploit or manipulate.

For the undocumented people, survival comes first. Poverty, fear, and uncertainty mean that keeping a low profile feels like the safest option. Many become trapped in the belief that trying to legalise their stay will only bring more problems than solutions, even when that may not always be the case.

Then there are politicians and opportunists. For some, protests and moments of unrest become opportunities to advance their own agendas rather than genuinely address the underlying issues.

In the end, it's often the people with legitimate concerns who lose out. Their voices are drowned out or their struggles are hijacked, while the real problems remain unresolved.

And for the love of everything, the best and worst thing that could have happened is social media, It is very good for mobilizing people but it has led to a people who don't stop to think but just believe anything. It makes it difficult for the average person to sift through the information.
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Very sound take, I was just wondering since some companies are threatening to close down since they can't find the skills they need to keep running here locally, I mean if your people are that critical to the survival of your company, you'd think one would go an extra mile in having a solid business continuity plan.

But maybe we are just being gaslighted and the problem is not as major as they are making it out to be.
 
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TheChamp said:
It is this kind of gaslighting that should not be tolerated, illegal foreigners are a problem, they are a crime, just because government does not enforce the law doesn't give them a free pass, there should be no victimhood agenda that should created out of this for opportunists who want to make this about them.

The government must enforce the law, and the law explicitly prescribes that illegal. Immigration is a crime, that's where it starts and ends, anything besides that is just drama.
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It is not gaslighting, it's historical fact. Just before elections certain political parties go off on campaigns against smaller groups. The group is made the target of all ills and woes in South Africa by these parties. In the process innocent people get caught up in the campaigns. And stupid voters fall for it.

I'm not saying certain illegal immigrants are not a problem either. But then so are some legal immigrants. It's a smokescreen. What about SAPS, SANDF etc. Resolving those, we still have not gotten to the heart of the problem.

The government must enforce the law you say? Imagine if a GLM leader starts shooting off her mouth in one of these campaigns, SAPS listens and innocent people start getting arrested. If Jacqueline Mofokeng was alive, your comrade could have educated you on political stupidity.

I've seen this shyteshow many times. The fish rots from the head down, that's why these issues exist to be exploited now. It is politically opportune.
 
TheChamp said:
When government does not enforce the law, people will always take the law into their own hands, often with very undesirable consequences, it's not just with illegal immigration but with any crime that's not addressed by government.

What can never follow is that just because the government is not doing their job therefore illegal foreigners or any other people who do crime are scapegoats, if you come here illegally, you have committed a criminal offence, you are not some scapegoat, the same way any criminal who falls in the hands of the mob is not a scapegoat.
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I do not disagree, to the contrary, I agree.

However, in the SAPS decision making process to investigate or not, you find: "How does the public perceive this crime?". Feed the perception then we have a scapegoat.

Our problem is we have some of the most advanced tech in Africa thanks to private enterprise, a weak justice system. It's a magnet and until we fix our state institutions, not only the justice system, everything else is fruitless.
 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:
And stupid voters fall for it.
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Very true and often times, Issues like these are amplified to inflame voter. While illegal immigration is a very big issue , its almost a drop in the ocean compared to the magnitude of the corruption that is going on, If anything The Madlanga commission should have ignited our own Arab spring and the very sad part about it is that every time there is a commission that is trying to expose the magnitude of corruption going on, all these migration issues suddenly come to the forefront, after elections and the inquiries end, it all dies down.

All the while the poor become poorer, more angrier.

Hopelessness and helplessness fermenting for the next round of promises.

Politicians again will point to the immigrant as the cause of people suffering while hiding their failures.

Its a deeply frustrating shyte show.
 
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