Kidney Stones

Nerfherder said:
So I have them twice, both times I went to the hospital and both times I actually passed the stone. So my experience was quite different to you.

The first time was quite a shock and I did think I was dying, was all alone, drove myself to the hospital while having halucinations (that's an entire thread if we want to get into the story).
Second time I recognised the pain and went to the hospital early, they gave me drugs and I passed the stone.
Both of these were tiny though, I sent them to the labs and never got any usefull information back.
The urologist said, to treat them you need to know what kind as the diet change is very different (5 types).
He said I would get them every 5 years until I was about 60 then I wont get them again.

So I got in 2010, 2015 and now its 2026 and I have part 3 of the story: I have gall stones as well.

ill get to the story but I just want to point something out:



Your kidneys are in your lower back and so kidney stones manifest as lower back pain that comes in waves.
The gallbladder is located just under your ribs and thats where my pain was when I got stones there.

So the gallbladder story goes like this.
I have been having acid reflux for some years now, thought it was diet and round tummy. So a doctor gave me some drugs to help.. it works when I use it.
Then recently I started getting massive pain in my stomach, like spasm and burning, so a relative died of bowel cancer recently, I decided to get a colonoscopy (im mid 40s). Both the up and down scopes were fine, which was odd.
Usually the pain goes away after a few hours, I had this like 3-4 times. It wakes me up at night so I always thought it was spicy food..
Then the other day I get the pain again but its sudden and gets worse very quickly. After 2 hours I give up and decide to go to the hospital because symptoms could be a heart attack. They do all the heart checks and I'm fine.
Then the do an ultrasound and they see shiny spots on the gallbladder... and the kidney but that seems fine.
When they put the ultrasound under my ribs I jumped through the roof - even though I had morphine up the wazoo.

So all the pain I was having was just the gravel coming out, I also have a 7mm stone sitting in there.
They gave me codeine, buscopan an anti nausea and something else for reflux.
I stopped all of it after a day as I felt fine but then about a month later I got the pain again and took the drugs, they knocked me out but I didn't have to go back to the hospital.

After the second time I booked an appointment with the surgeon and he said the best thing is to just take it out (gallbladder).
So i'm booking for that in the next few weeks.

its a constant worry as to when it will strike again because when it does happen, i'm stuffed.

I spoke to a few people and the pain is worse than giving birth.
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Yeah, it definitely crossed my mind that I might be having gallbladder stones or issues, but everything checked out. Yup, also had two gastroscopes and an endoscopy to find out what was causing my stomach issues, just a very inflamed stomach lining, which was put down to overuse of NSAIDs or possibly a H.Pylori infection.

The issues I'm having sound very much like gallbladder issues, but it just happens that this stone is really far up and sitting in a weird place, as the pain is mostly in the front, but definitely radiates to the back.

It's almost impossible to sleep on my back without being medicated enough to knock me out.

Really sorry to hear about your relative. My grandmother passed away from colon cancer when I was a teen.

I can manage the gastritis without eating crap or dairy, and manage the right "non-obstructive" kidney stone as long as I don't jump around like a maniac, but it's these little ones that pop up every three to six months that put me out of commission.
 
Defiler said:
I'll probably have to get another opinion (3rd), so I'll do some research about echolithotripsy and make sure to ask about it. :thumbsup:
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Aka: Extracorporeal Shock Wave Lithotripsy (ESWL)

I’ve had it a few times. Doesn’t always work but it’s a lot better than ureteroscopic removal (which usually involves a stent for 2-3 weeks).

A few things that haven’t been mentioned especially for those who get them all the time:

Get your stones tested to see what they’re made out of, this will determine how to prevent them. Hydration is always recommended and diet can go some of the way, but if you still get them recurrently you should also be doing a 24-48 hour urine collection, and some spot test collections, so a lab can determine if your kidneys are excreting too much oxalate, too much calcium, or too much uric acid. There are different drugs to treat each of these specifically.

Another thing is that for large stones there are alpha blocker drugs (in the US called tamsulosin and silodosin), that make it less painful and much easier to pass stones, especially larger ones. FYI, 5mm and up your likelihood of passing them drops quickly to nearly 0% around 8+mm. They widen the ureter and reduce spasms/contractions which cause the pain.

Also, as a warning: if your stone does become obstructive (blocks and air in the ureter causing your kidney to swell - aka hydronephrosis), the pain can be intense for a few days, but then passes as your kidney stops functioning and lets the other one do the work. Left in this state for more than 4-8 weeks depending on who you ask, can result in kidney failure. So never assume that a large stones passed if the pain stopped. Get an ultrasound (should easily see hydronephrosis - kidney will literally be much larger than the other one) or a CT scan.
 
marine1 said:
Kidney stones = penis bullets
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giphy.gif
 
Never had it and fingers crossed it stays that way. But just want to say that my grandfather kept a kidney stone in a little clear plastic container in his bedside drawer as a memento for decades. Do you guys keep yours? :p

As little kids my brother and I shook it around in the container and stuff.
 
SHL said:
giphy.gif
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Pretty much. I needed to piss ASAP last night while I was trying to eat dinner, flow was low, and I felt that familiar burn, before my flow reduced to a few dribbles. Sit down and start eating again, eat a few mouthfuls, need to run to the bathroom again, pass another stone, and by that time, my bladder was completely empty, but could feel another one stuck in the pipeline... Chug water and beer, and just over an hour later, I run back, this time I had to sit down which took a good 20 minutes to get rid of the last one, like pissing chillies. I was sweating, but knew it was out. Felt like I gave birth.
 
wbot said:
Never had it and fingers crossed it stays that way. But just want to say that my grandfather kept a kidney stone in a little clear plastic container in his bedside drawer as a memento for decades. Do you guys keep yours? :p

As little kids my brother and I shook it around in the container and stuff.
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They are usually pretty small and not much of a memento. The very first one I successfully captured, I was pissing into a glass lab flask, and it wasn't much bigger than half a grain of rice...
 
Had my gall bladder removed many years ago as a stone got lodged in the entrance.

Worse pain ever!

Still cannot beat my wife though. She's had about 50 stones removed over the last 5 years and has more again :(
 
Defiler said:
They are usually pretty small and not much of a memento. The very first one I successfully captured, I was pissing into a glass lab flask, and it wasn't much bigger than half a grain of rice...
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My grandfather's was large. About 2 or 2.5cm. Probably why he kept it.
 
wbot said:
My grandfather's was large. About 2 or 2.5cm. Probably why he kept it.
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Yeah, that's pretty large, 20-25mm. I'm sure that was surgically removed? My grandmother had a gallstone surgically removed that was the same shape and slightly smaller than a pecan, which she kept in a glass jar.
 
Defiler said:
Yeah, that's pretty large, 20-25mm. I'm sure that was surgically removed? My grandmother had a gallstone surgically removed that was the same shape and slightly smaller than a pecan, which she kept in a glass jar.
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I read that as 'pelican' and nearly fainted on her behalf.
 
A cup of coffee, 3 litres of water, 2 lemons and 1 litre of soda water, a valium (glad I still have some of those left), and a black label quart down the hatch and pissing like a racehorse. I should be back in action tomorrow after a proper sleep.
 
Defiler said:
I'm sure some of you guys and *maybe* some of you gals have had kidney stones before. I would just like to hear some of your experiences and if you have any suggestions for dealing with the pain or preventing them.

The first time I had a kidney stone was in my early 20s, and honestly, I thought there was something seriously wrong with me and that I was going to die. Saw a doc, did a quick urine dipstick test to check for blood or infection, which was clear, so I was prescribed Myprodol and advised to drink at least 2-3L of water a day. Ok, great, that seemed to help, but every few months I would get another stone, so I just kept popping Myprodol before and at work since my job was quite physically demanding as a techy/installer.

Skip 15 years til now, I wrecked my stomach lining (chronic gastritis) from taking too many NSAIDs, so non-steroidal anti-inflammatories are out of the question, and they also lost their efficacy. Got a bad UTI about three years ago, which antibiotics only partially cleared up, so was booked for an ultrasound, which picked up a 5-6 mm kidney stone, got booked for a CT scan, which found a "Nonobstructive 6 mm right upper pole renal caliceal calculus."

Doc prescribed me a box of tramadol for pain and valium for relaxation and sleep and advised I drink plenty of fluids and sent me on my merry way... Got another bad UTI earlier this year, so saw a new doc, dipstick test picked up an infection, got antibiotics and some more tramadol, and I was sent for another ultrasound, which picked up a 13mm stone and some smaller ones (under a mm in the other kidney). Since I'm not on medical aid, I went the public route this time, which wasn't too bad through Victoria Hospital, if you don't mind waiting in a queue for a few hours. Another ultrasound, then scheduled for CT scan the following week.

Get the results, speak to the urologist, "non-obstructive 7mm kidney stone", get told that it won't cause any pain where it's located, and it's also too far inside the kidney to perform any procedures. Back to square one. It definitely causes pain, and I can pinpoint exactly where it is (feels like a piece of glass stuck deep inside my body just under my ribs), so if I bend down in a weird position or pick up something heavy, it pokes and causes severe pain for a few days until things return to normal, so I'm 100% aware of it all the time.

Been out of tramadol for a few months, which is the only painkiller that offers some mild relief, so I'm probably going to have to go back to the doctor just to get another script.

I'm also in the process of moving and had a particularly busy day yesterday, which must have moved some smaller stones, which I passed later in the evening after chugging water, a couple of beers, and valium. It was three stones that felt like fire coming out, and I didn't have enough juice in the tank, so to speak, to get the last one out. Not pleasant at all, and I feel raw and painful today, so I'm taking it easy.

So let's hear some of your stories/suggestions!
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It depends on whats in your diet. A lot of red meat, spinach, coffee, etc.

Kidney stones are mainly just diet, drink a lot of water, and avoid a lot of stuff that creates it. I had it twice, the 2nd time was the least enjoyable of the two experienced. That tube they install, hate it with a passion.




The foods to avoid depend on the type of kidney stone, but for the most common type (calcium oxalate stones), it's generally wise to limit: [niddk.nih.gov], [govinfo.gov]

  • Spinach
  • Rhubarb
  • Peanuts and peanut products
  • Nuts and nut butters
  • Wheat bran [niddk.nih.gov]
You should also reduce:

What not to do:

  • Don't completely eliminate calcium-rich foods unless your doctor tells you to. Adequate dietary calcium can actually help prevent calcium oxalate stones. [kidney.org], [niddk.nih.gov]
Most important of all:

  • Drink plenty of water. Staying well hydrated is one of the most effective ways to prevent kidney stones. [niddk.nih.gov], [kidney.org]
  • Avoid Coffee or maybe one cup a day at most.
What does help break then down is lemon water. ie slice of lemon in water, but too much can eat away at your teeth, so maybe a straw but it does wonders.

Lemons contain citrate, a natural substance that can help prevent calcium from binding with oxalate and forming stones.
 
Defiler said:
Pretty much. I needed to piss ASAP last night while I was trying to eat dinner, flow was low, and I felt that familiar burn, before my flow reduced to a few dribbles. Sit down and start eating again, eat a few mouthfuls, need to run to the bathroom again, pass another stone, and by that time, my bladder was completely empty, but could feel another one stuck in the pipeline... Chug water and beer, and just over an hour later, I run back, this time I had to sit down which took a good 20 minutes to get rid of the last one, like pissing chillies. I was sweating, but knew it was out. Felt like I gave birth.
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Propofol

Will just take all that pain away.

I realised though why people get addicted to these drugs. You only really understand how many aches and pains you just ignore and have every day... because when you take this you feel nothing.
Everything just goes, you just feel ok.
 
Defiler said:
Yeah, that's pretty large, 20-25mm. I'm sure that was surgically removed? My grandmother had a gallstone surgically removed that was the same shape and slightly smaller than a pecan, which she kept in a glass jar.
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Ya, If I had one that big I would keep it as well.
 
Nerfherder said:
Propofol

Will just take all that pain away.

I realised though why people get addicted to these drugs. You only really understand how many aches and pains you just ignore and have every day... because when you take this you feel nothing.
Everything just goes, you just feel ok.
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Ahh, good ol propofol (what ended Michael Jackson). I had that when I had my 2nd gastroscopy and endo at the same time. Had to have three doses to knock me out. I'm not a big bloke, but I have a high tolerance to most things. I was in theater speaking gibberish to the anesthesiologist for a good 10 minutes while everyone was waiting for me to pass out lol. Best sleep ever.
 
Defiler said:
Ahh, good ol propofol (what ended Michael Jackson). I had that when I had my 2nd gastroscopy and endo at the same time. Had to have three doses to knock me out. I'm not a big bloke, but I have a high tolerance to most things. I was in theater speaking gibberish to the anesthesiologist for a good 10 minutes while everyone was waiting for me to pass out lol. Best sleep ever.
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When I had my last lithotripsy, the anaesthetist counted me down and I started counting along like the chipper lad I was.

Little did I know I would wake up with a stent in. Having that removed was very uncomfortable.
 
You guys not thinking of pethidine? Thats the thing they give you for severe pain in hospitals. Also the thing many people in healthcare get addicted too.
With my gallbladder removal there was complications and spend 3 weeks in hospital. They gave me those things in my drip and it was like instant 1L Brandy.
Even 29 year later I still get cravings for that stuff.
 
Pethidine is a toy.

I got morphine for mine. Even got takeways :D
 
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