Affordable EVs making it possible for many more people to make the switch away from petrol and diesel

[mylesillidge]

Pay R340,000 and never buy petrol again in South Africa

In the last year, four electric vehicles (EVs) have been launched in South Africa for under R500,000, making it possible for many more people to switch away from petrol and diesel.

The electricity needed to run an electric car in South Africa typically costs around a third to half of what a motorist would pay to fill up a similar petrol or diesel car to cover the same distance.

 

[The Gilded]

I've been saying this for months as we're all sick of Middle Eastern politics and the imbecilic Trump. Just add an extra 50 grand or so for a decent solar system to charge your car with. Worth every cent.

 

[bwana]

First I need solar at home, then I’ll consider an EV.

 

[Herr der Verboten]

Pay R340,000 and never buy petrol again in South Africa

In the last year, four electric vehicles (EVs) have been launched in South Africa for under R500,000, making it possible for many more people to switch away from petrol and diesel.

The electricity needed to run an electric car in South Africa typically costs around a third to half of what a motorist would pay to fill up a similar petrol or diesel car to cover the same distance.

“Pay R340,000 and never buy petrol again.”

That is such a South African headline.

Because yes, technically, you will never buy petrol again.

You will also never see that R340,000 again.

They make it sound like you have beaten the oil industry.

You have not beaten petrol. You have prepaid for freedom.

And I love how we now call a car “affordable” because it costs under R500,000.

Under R500,000 is not affordable in South Africa. That is just a smaller emergency.

It is like saying, “Good news, the operation is affordable. It is under one million rand.”

Then they tell you electricity costs much less than petrol.

Wonderful.

But first you must buy the electric car, install a charger, maybe get solar, maybe get batteries, and preferably own a house with a garage.

Then someone says, “Basically, charging is free.”

No, my friend.

You built a private power station so you can drive to Checkers.

And what happens during load-shedding?

In Europe, you plug in the car and go to sleep.

In South Africa, you plug in the car and open the load-shedding app.

Now the car has 12%, the power is off, and tomorrow you have a meeting in Midrand.

Suddenly transport has become a team-building exercise.

Then there is range anxiety.

The brochure says 300 kilometres.

But that is under ideal conditions.

No traffic, no hills, no air conditioning, no passengers, and apparently nobody is allowed to breathe too heavily.

The moment the battery drops below 20%, the whole family becomes an engineering department.

“Switch off the aircon.”

“Stop charging your phone.”

“Why did you move your seat?”

Still, electric cars probably are the future.

They are cheaper to run, quieter, and petrol prices are painful.

But let us be honest about the sales pitch.

It is not “Pay R340,000 and never buy petrol again.”

It is “Pay R340,000 and start monitoring electricity like it is a family member.”

At least the pain is quieter.

Just like the engine.

 

[FiestaST]

Headline is rather baity.

If an average Joe, called Joe, has a paid off reliable runner (Japanese or Korean) & he's monthly "gas" bill is eg. R1k to R2k pm it makes little sense to go into debt for a new cheapie EV. Likewise if he has the cash the opportunity cost is high & said bucks would be better spent elsewhere.

 

[calypso]

“Pay R340,000 and never buy petrol again.”

That is such a South African headline.

Because yes, technically, you will never buy petrol again.

You will also never see that R340,000 again.

They make it sound like you have beaten the oil industry.

You have not beaten petrol. You have prepaid for freedom.

And I love how we now call a car “affordable” because it costs under R500,000.

Under R500,000 is not affordable in South Africa. That is just a smaller emergency.

It is like saying, “Good news, the operation is affordable. It is under one million rand.”

Then they tell you electricity costs much less than petrol.

Wonderful.

But first you must buy the electric car, install a charger, maybe get solar, maybe get batteries, and preferably own a house with a garage.

Then someone says, “Basically, charging is free.”

No, my friend.

You built a private power station so you can drive to Checkers.

And what happens during load-shedding?

In Europe, you plug in the car and go to sleep.

In South Africa, you plug in the car and open the load-shedding app.

Now the car has 12%, the power is off, and tomorrow you have a meeting in Midrand.

Suddenly transport has become a team-building exercise.

Then there is range anxiety.

The brochure says 300 kilometres.

But that is under ideal conditions.

No traffic, no hills, no air conditioning, no passengers, and apparently nobody is allowed to breathe too heavily.

The moment the battery drops below 20%, the whole family becomes an engineering department.

“Switch off the aircon.”

“Stop charging your phone.”

“Why did you move your seat?”

Still, electric cars probably are the future.

They are cheaper to run, quieter, and petrol prices are painful.

But let us be honest about the sales pitch.

It is not “Pay R340,000 and never buy petrol again.”

It is “Pay R340,000 and start monitoring electricity like it is a family member.”

At least the pain is quieter.

Just like the engine.

I suggest you dont buy one if it causes this much pain for you.

 

[Heisenborg]

“Pay R340,000 and never buy petrol again.”

That is such a South African headline.

Because yes, technically, you will never buy petrol again.

You will also never see that R340,000 again.

They make it sound like you have beaten the oil industry.

You have not beaten petrol. You have prepaid for freedom.

And I love how we now call a car “affordable” because it costs under R500,000.

Under R500,000 is not affordable in South Africa. That is just a smaller emergency.

It is like saying, “Good news, the operation is affordable. It is under one million rand.”

Then they tell you electricity costs much less than petrol.

Wonderful.

But first you must buy the electric car, install a charger, maybe get solar, maybe get batteries, and preferably own a house with a garage.

Then someone says, “Basically, charging is free.”

No, my friend.

You built a private power station so you can drive to Checkers.

And what happens during load-shedding?

In Europe, you plug in the car and go to sleep.

In South Africa, you plug in the car and open the load-shedding app.

Now the car has 12%, the power is off, and tomorrow you have a meeting in Midrand.

Suddenly transport has become a team-building exercise.

Then there is range anxiety.

The brochure says 300 kilometres.

But that is under ideal conditions.

No traffic, no hills, no air conditioning, no passengers, and apparently nobody is allowed to breathe too heavily.

The moment the battery drops below 20%, the whole family becomes an engineering department.

“Switch off the aircon.”

“Stop charging your phone.”

“Why did you move your seat?”

Still, electric cars probably are the future.

They are cheaper to run, quieter, and petrol prices are painful.

But let us be honest about the sales pitch.

It is not “Pay R340,000 and never buy petrol again.”

It is “Pay R340,000 and start monitoring electricity like it is a family member.”

At least the pain is quieter.

Just like the engine.

Are you ok?

 

[Felixbf1980]

“Pay R340,000 and never buy petrol again.”

That is such a South African headline.

Because yes, technically, you will never buy petrol again.

You will also never see that R340,000 again.

They make it sound like you have beaten the oil industry.

You have not beaten petrol. You have prepaid for freedom.

And I love how we now call a car “affordable” because it costs under R500,000.

Under R500,000 is not affordable in South Africa. That is just a smaller emergency.

It is like saying, “Good news, the operation is affordable. It is under one million rand.”

Then they tell you electricity costs much less than petrol.

Wonderful.

But first you must buy the electric car, install a charger, maybe get solar, maybe get batteries, and preferably own a house with a garage.

Then someone says, “Basically, charging is free.”

No, my friend.

You built a private power station so you can drive to Checkers.

And what happens during load-shedding?

In Europe, you plug in the car and go to sleep.

In South Africa, you plug in the car and open the load-shedding app.

Now the car has 12%, the power is off, and tomorrow you have a meeting in Midrand.

Suddenly transport has become a team-building exercise.

Then there is range anxiety.

The brochure says 300 kilometres.

But that is under ideal conditions.

No traffic, no hills, no air conditioning, no passengers, and apparently nobody is allowed to breathe too heavily.

The moment the battery drops below 20%, the whole family becomes an engineering department.

“Switch off the aircon.”

“Stop charging your phone.”

“Why did you move your seat?”

Still, electric cars probably are the future.

They are cheaper to run, quieter, and petrol prices are painful.

But let us be honest about the sales pitch.

It is not “Pay R340,000 and never buy petrol again.”

It is “Pay R340,000 and start monitoring electricity like it is a family member.”

At least the pain is quieter.

Just like the engine.

Change will always happen dude.

Dial up to ADSL to Fibre
2G to 3G to 4G to 5G
Petrol cars to Hybrid to EV.
Black and white TUBE tv to LCD to OLed to Mini Led to RGB tvs
Brick cell phone to Nokia to Blackberry to Touch screen phones to foldable phones.


You cannot fight change, so just embrace it.

 

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

Headline is rather baity.

If an average Joe, called Joe, has a paid off reliable runner (Japanese or Korean) & he's monthly "gas" bill is eg. R1k to R2k pm it makes little sense to go into debt for a new cheapie EV. Likewise if he has the cash the opportunity cost is high & said bucks would be better spent elsewhere.

Reliable Runner (Japanese or Korean) is seen as too lower-class for the average Joe. He needs his Fortuner or Ford Ranger to feel manly enough.

 

[treeman]

This weekends trip to Langebaan resulted in panic when battery was 49%. Mykonos charging station requires the AC cable and so we headed back to Engen R27 only to find the charging station was out of order ( apparently 5months). We managed to make it back to CT by sticking to 80km ECO mode with 15%left.

 

[Zellephant]

View attachment 1921491View attachment 1921492
This weekends trip to Langebaan resulted in panic when battery was 49%. Mykonos charging station requires the AC cable and so we headed back to Engen R27 only to find the charging station was out of order ( apparently 5months). We managed to make it back to CT by sticking to 80km ECO mode with 15%left.

and that right there is why I would not even consider an EV in South Africa. I am all for hybrids, but full EV, not for the next decade or two at least - and I have a decent solar system at home, with more than enought excess capacity to charge a car. The problem is I cant take my 500k personal power station with me when I go away for the weekend.....

We recently upgraded the missus from a Suzuki Swift to a corrola cross hybrid (more because we needed the space than anything else). The swift gave us on average around 5.5l/100km, so fuel cost was prettty negiligeble. Now we get between 3.5 and 4, so fuel cost is still negligable. but we went from having a paid up car, to having a R5000.00 a month installment. so no real saving at all - but we didnt buy a new car to save money, be it on fuel or otherwise.

Buying a new car to "save money" is the craziest idea I have ever heard. anyone who falls for that sort of marketing is a fool.

 

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

Buying a new car to "save money" is the craziest idea I have ever heard. anyone who falls for that sort of marketing is a fool.

Only on BroadMedia's platforms brother...

 

[Sworaxe]

Change will always happen dude.

Dial up to ADSL to Fibre
2G to 3G to 4G to 5G
Petrol cars to Hybrid to EV.
Black and white TUBE tv to LCD to OLed to Mini Led to RGB tvs
Brick cell phone to Nokia to Blackberry to Touch screen phones to foldable phones.


You cannot fight change, so just embrace it.

Change happens when friction for the change is low.
For EVs there are loads of issues you will have to accept as the cost of changing over.

Just had an article the other day over people struggling to find technicians capable of repairing EV cars.
Crashed EV cars not being able to be repaired due to lack of repair techs trained to work on EVs.

What is the friction for switching to better TV tech? Works just like your previous TV; worst barrier would be price.

Take up for EVs has been extremely slow because switching is nowhere near as convenient as changing your TV.
Tesla sold well only in US because they were aggressively rolling out fast charge stations that eased range anxiety.

Steam has the market dominance it has because they knew piracy was a convenience issue.

 

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

Change happens when friction for the change is low.
For EVs there are loads of issues you will have to accept as the cost of changing over.

Just had an article the other day over people struggling to find technicians capable of repairing EV cars.
Crashed EV cars not being able to be repaired due to lack of repair techs trained to work on EVs.

Not just that, getting spares is a pain in the arse.
I know of two of those DongFeng Box cars standing in storage in Cape Town, because both have been in crashes and the parts are being sourced from all over and are problematic to get.

 

[Zellephant]

The other issue is longevity. I am not convinced EVs are going to be anywhere near as serviceable long-term as "normal" cars.

When I purchase a new car, I realistically expect at least 15 years of good, reliable service out of it. Anything less is just not acceptable. But I have never owned any advanced electronic device that has that sort of service life - and when electronics fail, you tend to bin them and replace them with newer tech - they are generally not serviceable. I do not foresee EV charging and control systems as serviceable items. Sure, batteries can be swapped out/replaced, but at what sort of cost?

On IC cars built in the last 40-odd years, it is almost without fail the electronic components that become problematic as the car ages and cannot be reliably repaired. Mechanical systems can be serviced and maintained into perpetuity with a little bit of know-how. With EV's we keep being told how one of the greatest benefits is the lack of moving parts, which means they need a lot less maintencance/servicing. What is conveniently ignored in that equation is the inability to service or repair these parts when they eventually fail. Solid-state electronics and microcontrollers are great until they aren't, and then you throw them away.

 

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

The other issue is longevity. I am not convinced EVs are going to be anywhere near as serviceable long-term as "normal" cars.

When I purchase a new car, I realistically expect at least 15 years of good, reliable service out of it. Anything less is just not acceptable. But I have never owned any advanced electronic device that has that sort of service life - and when electronics fail, you tend to bin them and replace them with newer tech - they are generally not serviceable. I do not foresee EV charging and control systems as serviceable items. Sure, batteries can be swapped out/replaced, but at what sort of cost?

On IC cars built in the last 40-odd years, it is almost without fail the electronic components that become problematic as the car ages and cannot be reliably repaired. Mechanical systems can be serviced and maintained into perpetuity with a little bit of know-how. With EV's we keep being told how one of the greatest benefits is the lack of moving parts, which means they need a lot less maintencance/servicing. What is conveniently ignored in that equation is the inability to service or repair these parts when they eventually fail. Solid-state electronics and microcontrollers are great until they aren't, and then you throw them away.

So my concerns align with yours.

My concerns are around two parts:
1. The battery will wear out- they all do. And getting that replaced is going to be an expensive hassle. I have no experience but I can be sure that many people will experience the same thing they experience with iPhones that have worn out batteries. You try and take a photo and the phone reboots and when it comes back online it says "battery led to unexpected restart". So there you go in your DongFeng box, try and overtake the hoenderhok taxi and your car stalls because the battery dropped.

2. The reliability of the SiC MOSFETS (assuming they've used the technology) in the inverter. What they do in these cars is have all of that stuff immersed in the transmission fluid to cool it. Some designs use water cooling, but, as we know from Volkswagen's experience, the reliability is not great especially in our hot summer climate.

 

[konfab]

The other issue is longevity. I am not convinced EVs are going to be anywhere near as serviceable long-term as "normal" cars.

When I purchase a new car, I realistically expect at least 15 years of good, reliable service out of it. Anything less is just not acceptable. But I have never owned any advanced electronic device that has that sort of service life - and when electronics fail, you tend to bin them and replace them with newer tech - they are generally not serviceable. I do not foresee EV charging and control systems as serviceable items. Sure, batteries can be swapped out/replaced, but at what sort of cost?

On IC cars built in the last 40-odd years, it is almost without fail the electronic components that become problematic as the car ages and cannot be reliably repaired. Mechanical systems can be serviced and maintained into perpetuity with a little bit of know-how. With EV's we keep being told how one of the greatest benefits is the lack of moving parts, which means they need a lot less maintencance/servicing. What is conveniently ignored in that equation is the inability to service or repair these parts when they eventually fail. Solid-state electronics and microcontrollers are great until they aren't, and then you throw them away.

There is less to go wrong with an EV than an ICE car. Much less.

There is one component that can give problems, and that is the battery. And realistically, once the market for EVs picks up refurbishing them will be fairly commonplace.

Think about it like this- your EV battery is showing unusual wear. So you take it into the shop for refurbishment. They swap out the battery with a spare one owned by the repair shop so you can get your car back whilst they refurbish the battery.

The real problem with EVs is simply the upfront price, and the lack of a secondhand market, which contributes to it. I would bet that getting 3 child seats in the back of one of those "cheap" EVs would be borderline impossible. Something that my second hand R180k Diesel van handles fine.

 

[Zellephant]

There is less to go wrong with an EV than an ICE car. Much less.

There is one component that can give problems, and that is the battery. And realistically, once the market for EVs picks up refurbishing them will be fairly commonplace.

Think about it like this- your EV battery is showing unusual wear. So you take it into the shop for refurbishment. They swap out the battery with a spare one owned by the repair shop so you can get your car back whilst they refurbish the battery.

The real problem with EVs is simply the upfront price, and the lack of a secondhand market, which contributes to it. I would bet that getting 3 child seats in the back of one of those "cheap" EVs would be borderline impossible. Something that my second hand R180k Diesel van handles fine.

I will agree to disagree.

My iPhone has no moving parts, and is manufactured to a very high standard with very fine tolerances - and yet, as it ages, it eventually reaches a point where it is no longer fit for service, and that goes beyond just the battery. Batteries are supposed to be a reasonably easy replacement job on these EVs, and your argument that their refurbishment may become cheaper as time goes on is sound. Still, batteries are the least of my concerns regarding long-term reliability.

The manufacturers will never admit it, but one of the best things for them regarding EVs, is going to be the forced replacement cycle.

How many people do you know who still use 15+ year-old laptops, or smartphones, or smartwatches, etc. These sorts of electronic devices have a finite lifespan and then become unserviceable. The abiltiy of the electronics to disapate heat dimishes over time, corrosion kills control cicruits etc. these are already known issues regarding the electornic component side of IC cars. but with EVs, everything is controlled by micorcontrollers and mosfets, and when the go, they go for good.

 

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

I will agree to disagree.

My iPhone has no moving parts, and is manufactured to a very high standard with very fine tolerances - and yet, as it ages, it eventually reaches a point where it is no longer fit for service, and that goes beyond just the battery. Batteries are supposed to be a reasonably easy replacement job on these EVs, and your argument that their refurbishment may become cheaper as time goes on is sound. Still, batteries are the least of my concerns regarding long-term reliability.

The manufacturers will never admit it, but one of the best things for them regarding EVs, is going to be the forced replacement cycle.

How many people do you know who still use 15+ year-old laptops, or smartphones, or smartwatches, etc. These sorts of electronic devices have a finite lifespan and then become unserviceable. The abiltiy of the electronics to disapate heat dimishes over time, corrosion kills control cicruits etc. these are already known issues regarding the electornic component side of IC cars. but with EVs, everything is controlled by micorcontrollers and mosfets, and when the go, they go for good.

On the reliability of electronic components:

It is usually power devices, particularly those used in H-bridges in inverters that tend to take stresses and eventually fail.

I have never, and I repeat, NEVER seen or heard of a microcontroller failure in a vehicle. Every case of failure has been from accidents, stupidity by the customer, and something like jump-starting incorrectly.

Microcontrollers are very reliable, I have also not ever heard of bit flipping in their memories in vehicles.
MOSFETs driving injectors? Yes occasionally, pretty rare, the rate goes up exponentially however when the idiot mechanic is looking for a fault in the wrong place.

Sensor failures? Yep. Now I can speak from experience. Suzuki speed sensor- it's mounted above the diff helical gear, failed into a short-circuit, just died while driving. Of course, the heat and repeated heating/cooling cycles did that, but it took 11 years to get there.

In my experience with car and car repairs, it's usually the electromagnetic actuators and sensors that die, and anything carrying lots and lots of amperes, such as semiconductors in high temp zones (gearbox, exhaust) and those exposed to moisture.

 

[treeman]

and that right there is why I would not even consider an EV in South Africa. I am all for hybrids, but full EV, not for the next decade or two at least - and I have a decent solar system at home, with more than enought excess capacity to charge a car. The problem is I cant take my 500k personal power station with me when I go away for the weekend.....

That being said, I must say we are very happy with the Geely E2, what was impressive is that driving slowly 80km/h made all the difference to get back to CT with charge 49%-15%.

The vehicle itself is really nice, well thought out, and does not feel cheap.
We have base Aspire model 339K which is missing rear speakers and cameras.

The EV is typically used for a daily commute , and we slow charge it with an extension lead, approx 8% per hr of 325km range. Average economy is around 11kWh/100km , i.e. ( 11 units)

The Geely was the best selling car in China last year, Geely also owns Volvo and is not affiliated with the Chinese government.