The Odyssey broke attendance records at Ster-Kinekor in an "already phenomenal season" for cinema

SauRoNZA said:
I find it more bizarre that people will write off an entire movie as woke nonsense because of one casting call...you could swear there weren't a hundred other people in the movie and many of them very big names and solid actors.

Like I said before...I'm there for mommy Anne if nothing else.

Then the woke nonsense is such a minor role as well...which many people don't even realise because they have been entirely misinformed because they consider memes as fact.
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Your point is off.

The Odyssey is a Greek work. Unless you're Greek you should not brush off criticism of the casting of the movie.

Growing up in a Greek household in London, legends are recalled in such a way that I must admit to wilfully believing that there was a great Trojan war and perhaps some type of ruse involving a grand wooden horse. My mother places clay pots bearing the names of ancient heroes beneath Orthodox icons, and I have cousins named Achilleos, two aunty Athenas and a Cretan friend called Odysseas. At schools in Greece, young children learn to recite Homer’s poems in Ancient Greek, and phrases are used in everyday conversation.

Tales like The Odyssey, while cornerstones of world literature, have an intimate resonance in the Greek subconscious and in our sense of identity – as a people, not a nation. I imagine it would be the same for Indian Hindus and their Mahabharata or the Polynesian folklore that inspired Disney’s Moana. All said, I’m certain Greek audiences cannot wait to watch Nolan’s film – strange internet slang and inaccurate armour designs aside – because above all the Christopher Nolan fanfare, we enjoy seeing our heritage depicted.

Yet as Hollywood increasingly emphasises representation, exclusion provokes a doubly potent reaction. The debate in Greece around The Odyssey’s casting reminds me of the poem’s great theme: nostos – homecoming, after years of trials and obstacles. We Greeks are simply asking not to be written out of the journey.
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Even the left leaning Guardian acknowledges this.

More here: https://www.britannica.com/art/Controversies-About-Christopher-Nolans-The-Odyssey-Explained

At the very least, woke or not woke, if a film is to be representative, it should feature a rich Greek cast. And it is after all a Greek work, and a work which the Greeks study and love from primary school while to the rest of the world it is one story out of 1000s of strange local tales. To take that and use it as another cartoon about superheroes and address English speakers' colonial/slavery guilt is very inappropriate. Never mind that, for the English, the Greeks were also sort of second class citizens.

It is typical of the usual Anglo-American Brit to take someone else's heritage and mold it into their own topic du jour and completely omit the people who wrote it and whose heritage it belongs to.
 
Zellephant said:
Well, because at least we know from the source material what Helen of Troy is supposed to look like - that seems to be a pretty big detail to get wrong.

Then, there is also all the really weak dialogue that I have seen in the previews. I am normally a pretty big Nolan fanboy, but based on the previews, I am not convinced this is going to be of his best works. I have no interest in the movie after seeing the previews. its giving me serious Galdiator 2 vibes - and that was two and half wasted hours I will never get back.

Helen of Troy is a pretty well known cultural figure. Anyone with even a remote interest in greek literature, history and culture, would know straight away a black women make no sense in that role.
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There is a current tendency to make ethnic works more culturally pure or authentic. So works which were whitewashed or Euro-washed are becoming a bit more ethnic, reflecting more of the original, source ancestry. Except it doesn't apply here.

And let's be real, would a retelling of Shaka Zulu with a Chinese lead or say a Native American work just as well? What about a white man as Shaka Zulu? I don't think that would go down too well.

It's a Greek work of art. It's something Greeks are proud of. It's not Superman or Batman garbage. It's studied by Greeks in school since primary school. It's their national theater and literature.

Let's take some examples:

Roots: The landmark 1977 television miniseries, while revolutionary for its time, still operated under mid-century network constraints. The modernized History Channel remake utilized deeper historical research, hired African cultural consultants, and cast Malachi Kirby and an authentic ensemble to ground the West African Mandinka segments in exact cultural, linguistic, and spiritual realities.
Avatar: The Last Airbender: The 2010 live-action film adaptation by M. Night Shyamalan faced immense criticism for casting white actors in the lead roles of characters explicitly rooted in Asian and Indigenous Inuit cultures. The Netflix live-action series corrected this by exclusively hiring East Asian, South Asian, and Indigenous actors to match the source material’s cultural inspirations. [1]

Shōgun: While the popular 1980 television miniseries heavily centered on the perspective of the white, Western protagonist (played by Richard Chamberlain), the FX/Hulu adaptation shifted focus. It cast authoritative Japanese actors like Hiroyuki Sanada, prioritized deep historical accuracy, utilized authentic period dialogue, and featured Japanese producers and writers to accurately drive the narrative.
Killers of the Flower Moon: Early Hollywood regularly cast white actors in redface to portray Native Americans, or marginalized their perspectives in Westerns. Martin Scorsese's film corrected this historical trend by centering the Osage Nation. Rather than relegating them to background extras, the production worked hand-in-hand with Osage cultural advisors, cast Indigenous actors like Lily Gladstone in leading roles, and featured accurate language and customs. [1, 2]
 
Mike7 said:
Why would anyone lose their mind about one black woman in a fantasy movie when the cast is 95% white besides racism?
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It's usurping Greek culture. Cultural appropriation. It's done for white Anglo guilty, but it uses Greek cultural tales. They can recast their own kings and presidents as people of colour or whatever they wish.

And let's face it, the Greeks were also seen as inferior by the same WASPS who pushed older policies, Hollywood is now woke against.
 
Greek culture has existed for thousands of years it will be just fine. This is an American movie made for a International audience.
 
Mike7 said:
Greek culture has existed for thousands of years it will be just fine. This is an American movie made for a International audience.
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Based on one of the most important works of Greek literature of all time.
 
Mike7 said:
Why would anyone lose their mind about one black woman in a fantasy movie when the cast is 95% white besides racism?
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Besides the fact if you want to get really super technical the people of those times would be closer to coloured than white in the first place.
 
Mirai said:
It's usurping Greek culture. Cultural appropriation. It's done for white Anglo guilty, but it uses Greek cultural tales. They can recast their own kings and presidents as people of colour or whatever they wish.

And let's face it, the Greeks were also seen as inferior by the same WASPS who pushed older policies, Hollywood is now woke against.
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Have have you always had the view cultural appropriation is bad thing? No whites can wear a kimono and all that jazz?
 
supersunbird said:
Have have you always had the view cultural appropriation is bad thing?
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Hollywood prides itself on being opposed to that, when it comes to minorities, at least.

supersunbird said:
No whites can wear a kimono and all that jazz?
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It's not the correct take. I'm not claiming non-Greeks can't LARP as Greeks or create faux movies. I'm saying that The Odyssey ITSELF is a work of deep cultural heritage. It's very important to Greeks. And as such it deserves respect. And when you cast OTHER people and no Greeks among them to play up local politics - race issues/gender issues/feminist issues - you are appropriating something deep, rich and intimate to Greek people for your own political grandstanding.

I've already given you the example of Shogun (2024). The recent series is respectful of Japanese history, culture and language, while the older series (1980) was more of what Nolan created here, put his own people in it, including ones to show up how non racial he is and take that away. Use the Odyssey for some sort of post modern art.

Finally kimonos are something most Japanese would be reserved against. There are various types of kimonos and there are generic variants and there are ones which have deeper meaning. You would find that sometimes they may be open to you wearing one and sometimes no so much. Are Kimonos the equivalent of a generic Greek military outfit or are there specific types which have particular meanings which they tend to to appreciate when people disrespect?

Just a simple Google would tell you:

Japanese often don't mind if foreigners wear:

  • yukata
  • simple rental kimono
  • festival garments

But:

  • wedding kimono
  • coming-of-age furisode
  • garments with family crests
  • garments tied to Shinto or Buddhist ritual
  • garments tied to specific social roles

Would be deeply insulting if worn casually by others who did not earn the right to wear them.

(Note also that your gotcha shows how detached you are from other peoples' culture. For you it's all one outfit, but it's not. So maybe re-examine your preconceptions?)

You see many Westerners take other peoples' culture and appropriate it to play up their own politics and social issues. But perhaps you should ask those people if that's OK?

I get that you want to turn this into a silly meme but that's a shallow take, sorry for not biting.
 
Apropos Japan, there was a big deal about tourists harassing geisha in Kyoto. Some districts have now been closed off for foreigners. Precisely because yes they don't appreciate people snapping pictures of these women with their white faces in their fancy kimonos. Those people are not employees of Disneyland. Same here. Oh and how did these tourists harass these geisha women, they were taking pictures of them in public. Something allowed in many countries, over there no so much. Different culture. Same with the Odyssey.

People tend not to appreciate other peoples' culture and tradition, sometimes when they are deeply cynical and have forgotten their own, maybe they think it's all sh-t, or maybe they just have a blind spot and think it's all a joke out there.
 
Azbubu said:
Wonder Woman is supposed to be Amazonian/Olympian but she was portrayed by an Israeli Jew. No one lost their minds.
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I wonder why...............

1000013090.png

Can't put my finger on it lol.

(Many people did lose their minds and continue to lose their minds over Gal Gadot movies btw. Some countries even banned Wonder Woman because of Gal. But none of this has anything to do with the point I was making)
 
wbot said:
I wonder why...............

View attachment 1924032

Can't put my finger on it lol.

(Many people did lose their minds and continue to lose their minds over Gal Gadot movies btw. Some countries even banned Wonder Woman because of Gal. But none of this has anything to do with the point I was making)
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O.M.G 😅
 
wbot said:
I wonder why...............

View attachment 1924032

Can't put my finger on it lol.

(Many people did lose their minds and continue to lose their minds over Gal Gadot movies btw. Some countries even banned Wonder Woman because of Gal. But none of this has anything to do with the point I was making)
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Oh so it’s not about preserving the original character? Or would people be pissed if Lupita played Wonder Woman? I can’t keep up with when outrage is justified.

As for Gal, yeah, a lot of people hate her because she’s Jewish and a lot more people hate her because she’s a terrible actress.
 
LOL now all of a sudden it’s cultural appropriation.

My fok.

Through this months long “woke nonsense” drama I don’t think I’ve seen a single person of even a remotely Greek origin have a moan that it’s not Greek enough. 🤣

Not even once. Now suddenly that’s the problem.
 
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