The Odyssey broke attendance records at Ster-Kinekor in an "already phenomenal season" for cinema

[Craig_]

Comic book nerds hated her as Wonder Woman because she didn't have big boobs.

That's fckg plenty, there's really something wrong with some guys.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Why are we hating on Zendaya, she's pretty.

I haven't seen enough of her to care either way, what I've seen from youtube critics is she's quite one dimensional with basically only one facial expression and emotion at all times regardless of the scene or role she's in

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Who estimated break even at $750m?

Gemini bro, who else?

typically once you factor in marketing cost etc the budget at least doubles compared to production cost on average

 

[greg0205]

Well, because at least we know from the source material what Helen of Troy is supposed to look like - that seems to be a pretty big detail to get wrong.

Then, there is also all the really weak dialogue that I have seen in the previews. I am normally a pretty big Nolan fanboy, but based on the previews, I am not convinced this is going to be of his best works. I have no interest in the movie after seeing the previews. its giving me serious Galdiator 2 vibes - and that was two and half wasted hours I will never get back.

Helen of Troy is a pretty well known cultural figure. Anyone with even a remote interest in greek literature, history and culture, would know straight away a black women make no sense in that role.

Really don't post much here anymore, but the Lupita seething is too good to ignore.

I'd like to address your 'pretty well known cultural figure' thing-ie by highlighting what must obviously, as per your post, be a pretty well known aspect of Helen's birth... We all know, obviously, that Helen's father was Zeus, and her mother was Queen Leda of Sparta with Zeus disguising himself as a literal Swan and seducing Leda who then produced a giant Swan egg from which Helen was hatched... And that's the part where I think all modern 'well known' cultural arguments fall to bits.

A Swan egg.

Also... if we are to believe that an actual person called Homer collated the oral traditions, and wrote the Ilaid and the Odyssey, then it follows that you believe he lived in a Mediterranean world around 800bce, nearly half a millennia after the fall of Troy. A Mediterranean world that would *still* have been a world full of dark or darker-skinned Greeks, Egyptians and Phoenicians.

Your 'pretty well known' blonde, blue-eyed Helen wasn't it for Homer then, and it sure as sh*t shouldn't be it in the year of our lord 2026, Zellephant.

 

[SeRpEnT]

Ugh! Superhero fatigue, I stopped watching any superhero crap some time ago, really not interested, besides I'm tired of seeing that ugly Zendaya bitch in everything . . . the **** is in Dune part 3

 

[RazedInBlack]

Why are we hating on Zendaya, she's pretty.

With Photoshop you could make anything with a pulse look pretty.

 

[Cray]

in the acting profession the "best fit" is someone who can believably portray a character, this extends to their looks and ethnicity

simple as that really, a misfit breaks the emersion, the very thing movie makers are trying to achieve

Am not sure a director should be making casting choices bases on the fact the some small minority of people feel that a mythical character isn't believeable just because they happen to be black. But that's just me.

 

[greg0205]

Am not sure a director should be making casting choices bases on the fact the some small minority of people feel that a mythical character isn't believeable just because they happen to be black. But that's just me.

I for one, am outraged that Nolan blatantly disregarded the global one-eyed, 25 foot tall minority when casting Polyphemus.

Outraged I say!

 

[Brian_G]

Nothing will stop woke Hollywood from doing it's thing, so might as well just try ignore the woke factor.. if not too bad.


But it's nice to let off steam about it here

 

[Mirai]

Are you suggesting that, rather than hiring the best actors and actresses for the roles, Nolan and his casting director should have looked at ethnicity as a major part influencing their casting decisions?

Sounds a lot like BEE...

Nope. I’m not arguing for race quotas or BEE. I’m arguing that when adapting a culturally foundational work, the culture it comes from is part of the text. The Odyssey is not just a story; it is a living part of Greek identity as I've already said and as others have pointed out (eg in the Guardian). Excluding Greeks entirely while using the work to stage modern Anglo-American political current topics, is not ‘merit-based casting,’ it’s cultural erasure. Respecting cultural origin is not the same as enforcing demographic quotas.

It seems that Cray, you also don't understand other people. You probably pride yourself on being a liberal but you don't empathise with other people. And the Greeks have been also victimised by the Anglo-Americans, seen as lesser 'whites', even in the not so recent past.

Look at Shogun (2024). It was both cast with authentic Japanese input and actors and received great praise. Would it have been better if British or Americans played the Japanese parts in that show? And how do you know Greeks have no talented actors to star in the Odyssey? Respect the work. Respect the people. Respect the tradition. Respect the culture. It makes the work more authentic too.

 

[Mirai]

Wonder Woman is supposed to be Amazonian/Olympian but she was portrayed by an Israeli Jew. No one lost their minds.

Wonder Woman is a US franchise of the 1940s or whatever. As such she is a cartoon character. Homer's Odyssey is not another cartoon but a foundational work of national Greek heritage and culture. It's a world classic but it's a Greek world classic.

Even so casting an American or Israeli Jewish person is fine here, she is after all also American and America is a melting pot country. Greece is not.

 

[Mirai]

Really don't post much here anymore, but the Lupita seething is too good to ignore.

I'd like to address your 'pretty well known cultural figure' thing-ie by highlighting what must obviously, as per your post, be a pretty well known aspect of Helen's birth... We all know, obviously, that Helen's father was Zeus, and her mother was Queen Leda of Sparta with Zeus disguising himself as a literal Swan and seducing Leda who then produced a giant Swan egg from which Helen was hatched... And that's the part where I think all modern 'well known' cultural arguments fall to bits.

A Swan egg.

Also... if we are to believe that an actual person called Homer collated the oral traditions, and wrote the Ilaid and the Odyssey, then it follows that you believe he lived in a Mediterranean world around 800bce, nearly half a millennia after the fall of Troy. A Mediterranean world that would *still* have been a world full of dark or darker-skinned Greeks, Egyptians and Phoenicians.

Your 'pretty well known' blonde, blue-eyed Helen wasn't it for Homer then, and it sure as sh*t shouldn't be it in the year of our lord 2026, Zellephant.

Category error.

Mythology is about symbols.
Cultural identity is real.

Just because the story contains fantastical elements, does not mean the culture of the story can be ignored.

Helen was not African. She was Mediterranean. Even if she came from 'an egg'. It's like saying Thai people are Chinese.

Vikings had ice giants in their mythology so we can represent Vikings as Chinese?
Indians have flying monkeys, so we can represent them with Egyptians?
Japanese have fox spirits, so we can have black people represent Japanese in serious traditional works?

And let's not confuse race with ethnicity/culture. So Greeks are darker, so any darker pigmented person will do? Really?

Suppose we had an Aboriginal Australian story, from their ancient past. Would we cast Nigerians to play these people? Really?

 

[Cray]

It seems that Cray, you also don't understand other people.

I know enough to know that the casting of a Hollywood movie doesnt matter all that much. The important thing is that a movie about their culture got made. Would it have been nice to have a greek actor in the lead role, sure, but dont make a lesser film to.do it.

You probably pride yourself on being a liberal but you don't empathise with other people. And the Greeks have been also victimised by the Anglo-Americans, seen as lesser 'whites', even in the not so recent past.

I remember watching Invictus which had Matt Damon and Morgan Freeman in the lead roles, I didnt once think they should have been played by South Africans because they are great actors and it exposed the story to a massive audience. People got to the movies to see big stars, you dont make a 200 million dollar movie and then expect it to make money by casting a bunch of unknowns.

Look at Shogun (2024). It was both cast with authentic Japanese input and actors and received great praise. Would it have been better if British or Americans played the Japanese parts in that show?

Shogun is a TV series, its not a massive movie that is being made by arguablly the best director on the planet. But it seems you know how to cast his films better than him.

And how do you know Greeks have no talented actors to star in the Odyssey? Respect the work. Respect the people. Respect the tradition. Respect the culture. It makes the work more authentic too.

You can respect all if that while still casting foreign actors to tell the story. Can you name one Greek actor without using Google?

 

[Mirai]

I know enough to know that the casting of a Hollywood movie doesnt matter all that much. The important thing is that a movie about their culture got made. Would it have been nice to have a greek actor in the lead role, sure, but dont make a lesser film to.do it.

Classic Anglo response. Your culture is lucky we're adapting it at all. Eh Cray?

I remember watching Invictus which had Matt Damon and Morgan Freeman in the lead roles, I didnt once think they should have been played by South Africans because they are great actors and it exposed the story to a massive audience. People got to the movies to see big stars, you dont make a 200 million dollar movie and then expect it to make money by casting a bunch of unknowns.

Invictus was a story about a rugby game made for Americans. It's not a foundational literature story of SA. But even here they stylized the actors to look and act like the people they were portraying. Didn't some of them learn South African accents and such?

Shogun is a TV series, its not a massive movie that is being made by arguablly the best director on the planet. But it seems you know how to cast his films better than him.

Not relevant. Not discussing box office here but culture. Cultural erasure. Yes maybe big shot actors earn big audiences. But not sure how popular Lupita Nyong'o is vs any of the more popular US / Anglo actresses?

So why do you ignore Greek culture and heritage, Cray?

You can respect all if that while still casting foreign actors to tell the story. Can you name one Greek actor without using Google?

So you're saying Greeks have no good actors?

 

[Mirai]

Oh yes Invictus,

Ask how many South Africans cared about that game... but anyway:

Morgan Freeman studied Nelson Mandela, learned his walk, his vocal cadence and met up with Mandela. Matt Damon spent months studying the South African accent and also met with Francois Pienaar.

Looks like they really tried here, but that was Eastwood, not Nolan - can't hear anything - Tenet director.

Arguably the best director. Again, not relevant. So a movie like Slumdog Millionaire is bad because Nolan did not direct it? Schindler's List is sh-t because it was Spielberg? Really?

I'm not saying every actor should be Greek but there was space for Greek input and some co-star Greek casting. Honestly Greeks have no actors of value at all?

Cultural authenticity is not synonymous with box office casting.​

 

[Cray]

Classic Anglo response. Your culture is lucky we're adapting it at all. Eh Cray?

Lol, So are you one of those people who thinks that cultural appropriation is a real thing?

Not relevant. Not discussing box office here but culture. Cultural erasure.

Everyone is talking about a Greek poem that was written 3000 years ago, how is that cultural erasure?

Yes maybe big shot actors earn big audiences. But not sure how popular Lupita Nyong'o is vs any of the more popular US / Anglo actresses?

So why do you ignore Greek culture and heritage, Cray?

Its not erasing their culture, its celebrating it. Matt Damon is playing a heroic Greek character, its not like they made Odysseus American.

So you're saying Greeks have no good actors?

Not at all, am saying they dont have any good, internationally well known actors who could headline a $200 million movie.

 

[Mirai]

Cray, you keep shifting the discussion to box office logic, but I’m talking about cultural representation.

Cultural appropriation does exist — not in the meme way social media uses the term, but in the very real sense that powerful cultures often overwrite smaller ones when adapting their stories.

Saying “everyone is talking about a Greek poem, so it’s not cultural erasure” misses the point. Talking about Greek culture is not the same as including Greek culture. The Odyssey is not just a 3000 year old story — it’s a living part of Greek identity, taught from childhood, recited in Greek schools, woven into language and tradition.

And I'm also not sure how much recognition that it is Greek and how much correspondence to the real work the film leaves behind?

Invictus is a good example of why cultural texture matters. It’s not even a foundational South African text, yet the actors still learned accents, mannerisms etc to respect the people they portrayed. If Hollywood respects culture for a modern rugby story, it’s strange to argue that cultural authenticity suddenly becomes irrelevant for one of the most foundational Greek works.

And your argument about “internationally well‑known actors” doesn’t hold up either. Lupita Nyong’o is not among the highest‑grossing actresses globally, so even your own box‑office logic doesn’t fully explain the casting.

I’m not saying every actor must be Greek. I’m saying that erasing Greek participation entirely — no Greek leads, no Greek co‑stars, no Greek cultural input — while using a Greek cultural inheritance to explore modern Anglo‑American themes is not “celebrating” Greek culture. It’s overwriting it.

Respecting cultural origin doesn’t make a film lesser. Shōgun, RRR (2024, Rajamouli), Parasite, Crouching Tiger, etc culturally rooted movies/shows prove the opposite. Cultural authenticity strengthens the work rather than weakening it.

Cray, I'm not sure why you're defending Nolan here. You should be agreeing with me.

 

[Mirai]

Cray it's fine to criticise Nolan. You're not becoming alt-right or a follower of Metatron.

 

[Cray]

Cray, you keep shifting the discussion to box office logic, but I’m talking about cultural representation.

Cultural appropriation does exist — not in the meme way social media uses the term, but in the very real sense that powerful cultures often overwrite smaller ones when adapting their stories.

Greek culture has been around for thousands of years, I think it will be fine.

Saying “everyone is talking about a Greek poem, so it’s not cultural erasure” misses the point. Talking about Greek culture is not the same as including Greek culture. The Odyssey is not just a 3000 year old story — it’s a living part of Greek identity, taught from childhood, recited in Greek schools, woven into language and tradition.

And I'm also not sure how much recognition that it is Greek and how much correspondence to the real work the film leaves behind?

Are you of Greek extraction or ever lived there?

Invictus is a good example of why cultural texture matters. It’s not even a foundational South African text, yet the actors still learned accents, mannerisms etc to respect the people they portrayed

Did the Odyssey movie not seek to replicate Greek culture, costumes and people?

And your argument about “internationally well‑known actors” doesn’t hold up either. Lupita Nyong’o is not among the highest‑grossing actresses globally, so even your own box‑office logic doesn’t fully explain the casting.

Lupita isnt one if the leads, perhaps she was just cast because she is a good actor. Why do you think she was cast?

I’m not saying every actor must be Greek. I’m saying that erasing Greek participation entirely — no Greek leads, no Greek co‑stars, no Greek cultural input — while using a Greek cultural inheritance to explore modern Anglo‑American themes is not “celebrating” Greek culture. It’s overwriting it.

Why does it matter? They are actors, portraying people of different backgrounds is literally what they get paid to do.

Cray, I'm not sure why you're defending Nolan here. You should be agreeing with me.

Because he has made plenty of awesome movies that I've enjoyed, he doesn't owe anyone a thing. He makes movies that I want to watch, people like you bitching about his casting choices just sound like people looking for something to get upset about.

 

[FiestaST]

What the fark is going on here?

(This is a rhetorical Q).