ANC stalwart’s attack on Afrikaans university the foundation of a totalitarian state

ANC stalwart’s attack on Afrikaans university the foundation of a totalitarian state

Wynand Boshoff, a Freedom Front Plus Member of Parliament, said that ANC stalwart Naledi Pandor’s attack on Akademia’s Afrikaans university is misguided.

 

[wbot]

I don't know, I want us to work together in unravelling the mystery, how is it that the majority of Afrikaans speakers are not white but the majority of Afrikaans things tend to be majority white even though being Afrikaans does not mean white as proven by the number of Afrikaans speakers?

The majority of Afrikaans speakers are coloured, but the majority of Afrikaans speakers in Gauteng (where things like Akademia and wanatu etc are), KZN, Free State, NW, Limpopo, Mpumalanga are white. You know that, right?

Also big socio-economic differences. Afrikaans things tend not to be held in coloured areas. Build a campus in Eersterust though for example and the majority will be coloured.

Nothing is stopping Afrikaans coloureds from taking part in Afrikaans things.

 

[porchrat]

Okay, I am happy with that, I was just wondering why the question was being dodged, if it doesn't advance non racialism and it is not it's intention to advance non racialism, then fine.

The non-racialism, correct me if I'm wrong here, was something I mentioned in response to Pandor's disgusting comments.

She's the one wanting to impede non-racialism here. She seemingly doesn't like the idea of an Afrikaans medium university. She seemingly doesn't want any space in our South Africa for Afrikaans. That's not what I believe in. I hope it's not something you believe in. I also don't think it's what any politician in power should believe in. Not just for Afrikaans but any of our wonderful languages. Any politician that thinks like she clearly does, should be relieved of their duties and sent home.

EDIT: funny enough her comment wasn't even limited to white Afrikaans folks. It was clearly aimed at white people in general. She, very clearly, objects to any form of culture being preserved or honoured if it's got to do with white people. Horrific to see racism like this alive and well in our politicians.

 

[TheChamp]

The majority of Afrikaans speakers are coloured, but the majority of Afrikaans speakers in Gauteng (where things like Akademia and wanatu etc are), KZN, Free State, NW, Limpopo, Mpumalanga are white. You know that, right?

Also big socio-economic differences. Afrikaans things tend not to be held in coloured areas. Build a campus in Eersterust though for example and the majority will be coloured.

Nothing is stopping Afrikaans coloureds from taking part in Afrikaans things.

Interesting, why do you think Afrikaans things tend not to be held where the majority of Afrikaans people are, doesn't that sound strange?

 

[TheChamp]

The non-racialism, correct me if I'm wrong here, was something I mentioned in response to Pandor's disgusting comments.

She's the one wanting to impede non-racialism here. She seemingly doesn't like the idea of an Afrikaans medium university. She seemingly doesn't want any space in our South Africa for Afrikaans. That's not what I believe in. I hope it's not something you believe in. I also don't think it's what any politician in power should believe in. Not just for Afrikaans but any of our wonderful languages. Any politician that thinks like she clearly does, should be relieved of their duties and sent home.

EDIT: funny enough her comment wasn't even limited to white Afrikaans folks. It was clearly aimed at white people in general. She, very clearly, objects to any form of culture being preserved or honoured if it's got to do with white people. Horrific to see racism like this alive and well in our politicians.

My question actually arose out of this exchange, not anything from you.

I don't believe in a Zulu, Xhosa, Pedi English or Afrikaans universities, football clubs, rugby clubs etc, I don't believe exclusion is the way to preserve your culture, to the contrary, the best way to preserve your culture is to take it out into the world instead of locking yourself in some enclave hoping your culture is locked in with you, I think apartheid truly messed up with the way Afrikaners think culture should be preserved.

But we clearly have different opinions about how culture should be preserved, I obviously won't get my way to prevail so let it be.

 

[porchrat]

My question actually arose out of this exchange, not anything from you.

I don't believe in a Zulu, Xhosa, Pedi English or Afrikaans universities, football clubs, rugby clubs etc, I don't believe exclusion is the way to preserve your culture, to the contrary, the best way to preserve your culture is to take it out into the world instead of locking yourself in some enclave hoping your culture is locked in with you, I think apartheid truly messed up with the way Afrikaners think culture should be preserved.

But we clearly have different opinions about how culture should be preserved, I obviously won't get my way to prevail so let it be.

View attachment 1929874

I like this point. It's a solid argument. I don't agree, I think it's perfectly acceptable to have places where cultures are preserved and practiced, but I see the merit in what you're saying. I think the ideal is probably a combination of the two. Well put.

I take it by that logic you're not in support of all these traditional kings and queens that we've got running around being publicly funded?

I mean I'm not in favour of them, but only as far as public funding goes. I'd have no problem with them if they were privately funded. By all means practice and preserve your culture. It's your right as a human being. Just don't ask me to fund it.

For you though I assume they shouldn't exist at all?

 

[wbot]

Interesting, why do you think Afrikaans things tend not to be held where the majority of Afrikaans people are, doesn't that sound strange?

Things like what? Did you miss the part where I told you the majority of Afrikaans speakers in almost every province are white? Coloureds are not the majority Afrikaans speakers in Gauteng, KZN, NW, Free State, Mpumalanga or Limpopo. You seem to think they are.

Did you also miss the part where I told you there are generally big socio-economic differences between whites and coloureds?

Again, nothing is stopping Afrikaans coloureds from taking part in Afrikaans events. Nothing is stopping Afrikaans coloureds from organizing things in their own communities. And they do just that.

 

[TheChamp]

I take it by that logic you're not in support of all these traditional kings and queens that we've got running around being publicly funded?

No, I have no issue with Kings, Queens and traditional leadership because I am not against culture and tradition, I am on record as saying maybe if Afrikaners had a King it would be very helpful in having a point of contact for their culture and tradition instead of wanting to practice it through sports, schools where it is divisive, like that recent Afrikaans schools rugby tournament thing.

I am however opposed to the manner in which traditional leadership is funded, particularly the Zulu monarch.

 

[Bewlen]

I don't know

Indeed.

, I want us to work together in unravelling the mystery,

No, you don't. You really, really don't. You just enjoy having a stick to beat with.

how is it that the majority of Afrikaans speakers are not white but the majority of Afrikaans things tend to be majority white even though being Afrikaans does not mean white as proven by the number of Afrikaans speakers?

"Things", huh...? Careful, you lifted the skirt up a bit high, we can see your entire ignorance.

 

[porchrat]

No, I have no issue with Kings, Queens and traditional leadership because I am not against culture and tradition, I am on record as saying maybe if Afrikaners had a King it would be very helpful in having a point of contact for their culture and tradition instead of wanting to practice it through sports, schools where it is divisive, like that recent Afrikaans schools rugby tournament thing.

I am however opposed to the manner in which traditional leadership is funded, particularly the Zulu monarch.

So you're OK with sheltered cultural preservation when it comes to traditional monarchies, but not when it comes to Afrikaans cultural preservation. How delightfully contradictory.

 

[Cray]

But the question is still interesting, care to answer it? Because you chose to answer all the questions that were never asked, he didn't ask if it was a private university or not, he didn't ask if a Zulu, Pedi, or Xhisa university could be built or not.

How does an exclusive Afrikaans university advance non racialism?

Why does everything have to advance non-racialism? Do you think people would prefer to be educated in their mother tongue, yes or no? As long as the University accepts all students, even non-first language Afrikaans speakers, why is this even an issue?

 

[getafix33]

Afrikaners don't have a history of burning things to the ground when their demands aren't met

 

[Maurice Kitching]

Why does everything have to advance non-racialism? Do you think people would prefer to be educated in their mother tongue, yes or no? As long as the University accepts all students, even non-first language Afrikaans speakers, why is this even an issue?

Not sure why any of this is an issue. My father did research on mother tongue education back in the 80's for one of his numerous theses. He contended that academic achievement among blacks could be greatly accelerated by it, advocated for good text book translations, and the increase in numbers of teachers trained to teach children in their own first language, especially in primary school. So you're right about that. The ANC cocked this up properly.

That said, the university in question has very simple requirements. Afrikaans as language of instruction, admittance on merit, and you're going to have to pay your fees. Let's take language out of the equation. What do you think the demographic is going to look like, based solely on the other two criteria? And if it turns out to be 95% white, who gives two sh! ts?

 

[TheChamp]

Why does everything have to advance non-racialism? Do you think people would prefer to be educated in their mother tongue, yes or no? As long as the University accepts all students, even non-first language Afrikaans speakers, why is this even an issue?

I honestly don't recall saying they have to advance non racialism.

 

[TheMightyQuin]

How does an exclusive Afrikaans university advance non racialism?

I honestly don't recall saying they have to advance non racialism.

Semantic pretzelling in 3...2...1....

 

[Zellephant]

Who says she wouldn't be unhappy about a all Xhosa University? You accuse her of being divisive when the topic is about a ONLY Afrikaans University. This is where we just fundamentally disagree and won't see eye to eye. What is stopping this idea from taking hold and having only Afrikaans businesses or only Afrikaans whatever? This will just lead to silos and some form of apartheid again only this time its no longer "Slegs Blankes" but "Slegs Afrikaans".

We already have strictly Afrikaans businesses. Thats the beauty of the private sector. You are free to choose what language you do business in - and last I checked, afrikaans was still one of our official languages.

I worked with many businesses where, if you dont speak Afrikaans, you are going to battle - and it's perfectly okay. When I go to rural parts of Italy or Spain, I dont expect the barkeep or the waitress, etc to speak English - so why should I expect it in an Afrikaans community.

Is she wrong though? How naive are you that you think some especially those in Afriforum don't see this as a way to exclude others?

By design, it will exclude many - but that's not really important; that is not why its being built. It is being built to preserve and protect a culture and heritage, and provide a group an opportunity to study further in their mother tongue - nothing more, nothing less. But anyone who wants to be taught in Afrikaans, and is able to pay the fees, can go there.

You can keep being naive and pretend some whites with power and money that want a return to something like Apartheid doesn't exist while I will keep living in the real world. Why would you want a only Afrikaans Business? What would the reasoning be? Why would you exclude a big chunk of potential customers just so that you can speak Afrikaans? You are going to skirt around this question and pretend the reasoning is something else when for everyone else it's about exclusion.

Because maybe instead of seeing it as excluding everyone else, maybe see an Afrikaans business "including" their target demographic - and if there is a sufficient business case for that, then why not. Lots of local businesses all across South Africa are geared towards their target markets, and trade using the predominent language of their region or customer base.

Again you are being naive. Why would a Xhosa kid who doesn't speak a lick of Afrikaans apply to this University? Hint, they won't which is the whole idea behind only Afrikaans.

Unless they maybe wanted to, then I doubt they would be denied access - as long as they had the marks required and the financial means.

It's like talking to brick walls. Why would a Zulu kid want to be taught in Afrikaans? A language they can't speak and probably wont need to speak once they are in a professional environment.

If there is no benefit to them, and they dont see value in it, then yeah, they shouldn't - but they still could if they wanted to.

Why should an afrikaans kid be taught in english, especially if its a language they cant speak, and probably wont need to speak once they are in a professional environment? I mean what if that afrikaans kids plans are to go work on wind farms for a Spanish company directly after thier studies - then what value does an education in english provide over one in afrikaans? Would it not be better for him to do his studies in his home lanuage, and then also learn spanish at the same time?

But the question is still interesting, care to answer it? Because you chose to answer all the questions that were never asked, he didn't ask if it was a private university or not, he didn't ask if a Zulu, Pedi, or Xhisa university could be built or not.

How does an exclusive Afrikaans university advance non racialism?

It doesnt - nor is it trying to. Why does it have to? Why can't it just get on with the business of educating people.

Would you disagree if I put it to you that all Afrikaans things, coincidentally or not just turn out to be more white than Afrikaans despite the Afrikaans having nothing to do with race?

Freedom Front, Solidarity, Afriforum, Soltech, Wanatu, pretty much anything you can think of that claims to be Afrikaans, even this new university will also be more white than it is Afrikaans, wonderful coincidence?

So what, just like zulu things are primarily black, or Xhosa things are primarily black. If we want to move forward in this joke of a country, we need to learn to seperate race from culture, and allow everyone thier constitutional rights equally.

 

[Cray]

I honestly don't recall saying they have to advance non racialism.

You didnt say it has to, but you asked the question as if it's something that should be considered. Surely taking race completely off the table in terms of admission is the best way to advance non racial ism?

 

[TheChamp]

You didnt say it has to, but you asked the question as if it's something that should be considered. Surely taking race completely off the table in terms of admission is the best way to advance non racial ism?

Yes, I didn't, I asked a question and the answer was that it doesn't advance non racialism and that wasn't it's intention.

If you disagree with that I am happy to hear your answer on the question, how does it advance non racialism?

 

[Cray]

Yes, I didn't, I asked a question and the answer was that it doesn't advance non racialism and that wasn't it's intention.

If you disagree with that I am happy to hear your answer on the question, how does it advance non racialism?

If race is never considered as a criterion for entry into the institution, isnt that the purest for of non-racialism?

 

[TheChamp]

If race is never considered as a criterion for entry into the institution, isnt that the purest for of non-racialism?

No it isn't, languages are connected to race in SA, no matter how we deny it, when one of your black colleagues pop into your shared office and start speaking in Zulu you automatically assume they are talking to the black guy next to you, don't you?

If you are on a group project at work and your black colleagues start conversing in Zulu won't you feel excluded as a white person? But is Zulu a race? No it isn't but it can be used to racially exclude you.

So no, a Zulu, Xhosa, Pedi or Afrikaans university that has no criteria for race can still be racially excluding, Afrikaners have mastered exploiting that loophole, good for them.

 

[Zellephant]

No it isn't, languages are connected to race in SA, no matter how we deny it, when one of your black colleagues pop into your shared office and start speaking in Zulu you automatically assume they are talking to the black guy next to you, don't you?

If you are on a group project at work and your black colleagues start conversing in Zulu won't you feel excluded as a white person? But is Zulu a race? No it isn't but it can be used to racially exclude you.

So no, a Zulu, Xhosa, Pedi or Afrikaans university that has no criteria for race can still be racially excluding, Afrikaners have mastered exploiting that loophole, good for them.

You must be the biggest racist I have ever come across in my entire life. People like you are the reason South Africa is moving backwards very rapidly.

I personally would just join in on the conversation if someone walked in and started speaking Zulu, because even though I am white and usually considered Afrikaner, even though my “official” first language is English, I am relatively fluent in Zulu (I also speak Afrikaans and Dutch on first language level, and can get by in French and Italian).

Languages are a cultural thing, not a racial thing. It’s time you racists realise that.

I used to work in a part of Zululand, and there it was normal for whites to speak Afrikaans and Zulu fluently, even if they could hardly string a sentence together properly in English.