ANC’s message to South Africa: Apartheid caused most problems and don’t judge us on our historic record

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porchrat said:
Yes. I know. We all know. His plan was for the private investors to foot the bill. He didn't want the state paying for these things going forward. It didn't end up working out.
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Remind us again what his plan was. Speak plainly and clearly and include as much detail as possible.
 
wingnut771 said:
Remind us again what his plan was. Speak plainly and clearly and include as much detail as possible.
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In the beginning he wanted to privatise portions of Eskom's operations. Sort of like they're trying to do now with these public-private partnerships in ports etc.

I don't believe he ever wanted to fully privatise Eskom. It would, in large, remain in state control and owned by the state. (this became the plan more and more as his time in office went on)

As far as I recall his plan was to get private entities to fund new power stations. Run them for a set time then they revert to the state.

It never happened though. Private entities just weren't interested. Eventually there was no choice but to build Medupi and Kusile way too late.

He definitely screwed up. He thought there was surplus capacity despite being warned otherwise by the experts. He thought he had time he didn't really have. We all know this. Nobody is absolving the man of this stupid error.

Again though, this isn't the successful part of his presidency I'm talking about. It's not the economy. We saw very real advances there under his presidency.
 
porchrat said:
..

It never happened though. Private entities just weren't interested. Eventually there was no choice but to build Medupi and Kusile way too late.

He definitely screwed up. He thought there was surplus capacity despite being warned otherwise by the experts. He thought he had time he didn't really have. We all know this. Nobody is absolving the man of this stupid error.

Again though, this isn't the successful part of his presidency I'm talking about. It's not the economy. We saw very real advances there under his presidency.
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Why were they not interested?

Also, I don't see giving the ports over to foreign entities because one is too incompetent and racist to keep things inhouse as a solution.
 
wingnut771 said:
Why were they not interested?
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I'm not sure. I don't think anyone in the general public knows what the details of the deals being offered were.

wingnut771 said:
Also, I don't see giving the ports over to foreign entities because one is too incompetent and racist to keep things inhouse as a solution.
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Why isn't it a solution?

It's maybe a solution you don't like, but it seems to me taking the incompetent and corrupt away from operations is a way of dealing with incompetence and corruption in operations.
 
porchrat said:
I'm not sure. I don't think anyone in the general public knows what the details of the deals being offered were.


Why isn't it a solution?

It's maybe a solution you don't like, but it seems to me taking the incompetent and corrupt away from operations is a way of dealing with incompetence and corruption in operations.
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and I'm telling you it was because eskom was so efficient giving us cheapest prices in the world that no one else could compete, but you disagree so lets just leave it there.

leasing out national keypoints to malasia because one it too corrupt and incompetent is not a solution.

just imagine where we would be if we had this anc gov during sanctions.

Yeah, I just prefer to not have incompetence in the first place which was created by bee (the darling of mbeki)
 
no wonder this country is going nowhere slowly, becoming a Terrorist and fugitive hotel for the wealthy
when the ruling party keeps banging on about apartheid and historic things that long ago came to pass

I mean at some point the ANC will sell out to China and we will become another province of China
 
wingnut771 said:
and I'm telling you it was because eskom was so efficient giving us cheapest prices in the world that no one else could compete, but you disagree so lets just leave it there.

leasing out national keypoints to malasia because one it too corrupt and incompetent is not a solution.

just imagine where we would be if we had this anc gov during sanctions.

Yeah, I just prefer to not have incompetence in the first place which was created by bee (the darling of mbeki)
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Public-Private partnerships in terms of port operations are relatively standard the world over actually.
 
ToxicBunny said:
Public-Private partnerships in terms of port operations are relatively standard the world over actually.
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Yes, what's your point? Did those places also have broken cranes before signing the deals?

remind me again how did South Africa become so great again even with global sanctions and isolation?
 
porchrat said:
Yes. I know. We all know. His plan was for the private investors to foot the bill. He didn't want the state paying for these things going forward. It didn't end up working out.
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Sorry, but that is irrelevant.

Private or publicly funded, nothing was done because government did not listen to Eskom. They were warned repeatedly between 1998 and 2002. Medupi and Kusile equivalents should have broken ground by 2000, but nothing happened because government did not feel it was necessary. They failed.

And nothing has changed since. The ANC government has never been proactive. Something must collapse, break or become a crisis before they do something, while then going on about apartheid to try and distract people from their criminal levels of incompetence.
 
thestaggy said:
Sorry, but that is irrelevant.

Private or publicly funded, nothing was done because government did not listen to Eskom. They were warned repeatedly between 1998 and 2002. Medupi and Kusile equivalents should have broken ground by 2000, but nothing happened because government did not feel it was necessary. They failed.

And nothing has changed since. The ANC government has never been proactive. Something must collapse, break or become a crisis before they do something, while then going on about apartheid to try and distract people from their criminal levels of incompetence.
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and they decided to reinvent the wheel again with medupi and kusile instead of using inhouse (evil white man) knowledge when they built the last 40GW of coal power in the same time it took these plonkers to build 9GW.
 
wingnut771 said:
Yes, what's your point? Did those places also have broken cranes before signing the deals?

remind me again how did South Africa become so great again even with global sanctions and isolation?
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Very possibly some did yes.

But does that actually have any bearing on whether the idea/option is a bad or good one?
 
Whatever we make of the past, biggest problem is today's ANC doesn't give a hoot anymore at all. Who knows what MK will do with us either, now or later, but how good can it be with Zuma running it.....

Only hope is for him to succumb to old age. And then it's still thin at best.
 
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