New Members and Strong Growth For The Freedom Front Plus

[vigras rojara]

Idea - Lex, help start a basic economic-to-run commune somewhere close to the ULA focus areas. Take it from there.


/waits for bear comment



There. Now I can go to heaven again

 

[lexity]

I was just thinking, no need... I'm sure vigras will oblige.

 

[vigras rojara]

I was just thinking, no need... I'm sure vigras will oblige.

Of course, no need to "paws" for thought on that one.

 

[lexity]

lexity: time to consider options for avoiding repeat mass misery, yet?

small group of disproportionately vocal cynics: Nah... let's post bear pictures instead.

Oh dear.

Vigras, you are determined to prove Brian_G right, in his bleak forecasts.

 

[Brian_G]

lexity: time to consider options for avoiding repeat mass misery, yet?

Still waiting for an answer to post #1918


Anyway, what would a good post session be without me saying....................................................... bye

 

[vigras rojara]

Oh dear.

Vigras, you are determined to prove Brian_G right, in his bleak forecasts.

I'll just be over here waiting for some progress, after all these empty years of nothingness.

 

[Brian_G]

I'll just be over here waiting for some progress, after all these empty years of nothingness.

Phil did at least excite you for a while. @quovadis too

 

[vigras rojara]

Phil did at least excite you for a while. @quovadis too

He was amusing more than exciting. I wonder if he can now disclose who all the majorly important people were that he met with on his DC freebie?

 

[quovadis]

Phil did at least excite you for a while. @quovadis too

Just let me know when I should buy some land in the WC or, if lexity gets his way, claim some undeveloped piece of the V&A waterfront as mine subject to a dispute with whoever - which, of course, I won't recognize because I won't be subjected to violence.

 

[vigras rojara]

Just let me know when I should buy some land in the WC or, if lexity gets his way, claim some undeveloped piece of the V&A waterfront as mine subject to a dispute with whoever - which, of course, I won't recognize because I won't be subjected to violence.

As a ratepayer, you have no doubt paid way more than you have received in return via services. Therefore you are a net contributor and entitled to any piece of land you desire.

 

[lexity]

Just let me know when I should buy some land in the WC or, if lexity gets his way, claim some undeveloped piece of the V&A waterfront as mine subject to a dispute with whoever - which, of course, I won't recognize because I won't be subjected to violence.

As a ratepayer, you have no doubt paid way more than you have received in return via services. Therefore you are a net contributor and entitled to any piece of land you desire.

Good lordie..... you two wouldn't last an afternoon, in a libertarian jurisdiction.

Assuming your application was accepted in the first place... again a tall order.

 

[vigras rojara]

Good lordie..... you two wouldn't last an afternoon, in a libertarian jurisdiction.

Assuming your application was accepted in the first place... again a tall order.

Well that's for sure. I mean even libertarians don't last an afternoon in libertarian jurisdictions, so what chance do we have?

 

[lexity]

Well that's for sure. I mean even libertarians don't last an afternoon in libertarian jurisdictions, so what chance do we have?

Anyone should be left to rise or fall on their own merits..... including libertarians.

How else are we to learn from our mistakes? i.e. if we're supposed to never make any.

Or do you think expecting everyone to learn from their mistakes is unfair?

 

[vigras rojara]

Anyone should be left to rise or fall on their own merits..... including libertarians.

How else are we to learn from our mistakes? i.e. if we're supposed to never make any.

Or do you think expecting everyone to learn from their mistakes is unfair?

Oh, I totally agree!

It's still a bit unfair of you to say that we wouldn't last an afternoon in a libertarian jurisdiction when dedicated libertarians themselves haven't got it right though, don't you think?

I mean it doesn't seem to work even in areas without bears.

 

[lexity]

Oh, I totally agree!

It's still a bit unfair of you to say that we wouldn't last an afternoon in a libertarian jurisdiction when dedicated libertarians themselves haven't got it right though, don't you think?

I mean it doesn't seem to work even in areas without bears.

As I was pointing out earlier, name-poaching is rife whenever you begin to criticize a bad form of self-government.

Dedicated libertarians define their terms upfront.

If you still conflate 'government' with 'State,' by the time you embark on a community experiment in self-government, you haven't earned your stripes.

Having said that, I haven't seen an account of the story from the other side. I should perhaps reserve judgment until then. It's just that you do get some entitlement-minded bright sparks who can't wait to wear the label and run it into the ground.

If it turns out they didn't have a plan to oust rule-breakers, or worse still... never bothered to create a set of rules for refuse management in the first place, I will concur with the criticism. But, again, that would be a sign of wannabee libertarians who are no more than, modern liberals... who soon become fodder for cynics with no ideas of their own.

A libertarian ordered society would have rules. The difference is that those rules are agreed to continually by all members of the society. If they are at odds with a members moral core, then the minimum would probably be explicit agreement to pay penalties when rules are broken and to suffer economic boycott and social ostracism under the right to freedom of association.

 

[capd]

That's kind of useless as local elections are at municipal level rather than provincial level. I want to see predictions in major municipalities! Also IIRC, Paul Jacobson was a FF+ candidate in the Sea Point ward last time out, so hardly an unbiased source.

Sure but it's important that the DA's local majority is brought under 50% in order to prevent (their) abuse(s) of power, which is what the post (and most commentary there) is about.

A recent example is council meetings being conducted over Teams, where Speakers mute dissidents such as CAPEXIT, VF, etc.

Over-development, clearing of land for shacks to be built, a lack of tackling vagrants, etc., are of also of grave concern.

Service delivery is better here because we are culturally different to the rest of SA.

 

[lexity]

How exactly are you going to make this work, Lex?

By continuing to do what I have been doing... making irrefutable arguments in public discourse, inviting anyone who wants to pose a challenge to the ideas to do so peacefully.

I leave other individuals' response up to them. It's not for me to force them to engage.

There's a heck of a lot I say here, for instance, that goes completely unrebutted.

So.... all I can do is propose the strongest arguments I know, and use force only in self-defense. This is consistent with the highest form of civilized behavior human beings have come to know.

 

[Brian_G]

By continuing to do what I have been doing... making irrefutable arguments in public discourse, inviting anyone who wants to pose a challenge to the ideas to do so peacefully.

I leave other individuals' response up to them. It's not for me to force them to engage.

There's a heck of a lot I say here, for instance, that goes completely unrebutted.

So.... all I can do is propose the strongest arguments I know, and use force only in self-defense. This is consistent with the highest form of civilized behavior human beings have come to know.

Very nice, and long may your efforts continue.

Now show us where such discourses, by anyone, have had any of the desired influence on the ULA being hoped for.
It's fine to try, it's also fine to believe it will make no measurable difference... in our lifetimes.


BTW you're welcome to debate with me regularly as before, even in my absence. I will at least be listening.

 

[Brian_G]

Dedicated libertarians define their terms upfront.

Dedicated to what geographic examples?

 

[lexity]

Now show us where such discourses, by anyone, have had any of the desired influence on the ULA being hoped for.

I will subject myself to no such obligation since this has no relevance to their future choice.