Problem with South Africa’s planned zero-alcohol driving limit

[Newsfeed]

Problem with South Africa’s planned zero-alcohol driving limit

Big questions remain about how South Africa will enforce a 0.0 blood-alcohol limit for drivers, given the state of its criminal justice system.

 

[DrJohnZoidberg]

How would enforcement change from how it is already? It's just the limit that changing, the rest should stay the same no?

 

[ThinkCentre]

One thing that I recently discovered was that if you have the slightest amount of alcohol in your blood, your insurance company will most likely not settle your claim if you were in an accident.

 

[Gordon_R]

One thing that I recently discovered was that if you have the slightest amount of alcohol in your blood, your insurance company will most likely not settle your claim if you were in an accident.

That is biologically implausible, there has to be a threshold. Every organism that metabolises produces trace amounts of by products. Google:

Gut Fermentation: Normal gut bacteria and yeasts (such as Candida or Saccharomyces species) ferment ingested sugars and carbohydrates into tiny amounts of ethanol.
Trace Blood Levels: Healthy individuals typically maintain baseline endogenous blood alcohol concentrations (BAC) ranging from undetectable to about 0.01 mg/dL.

 

[Gordon_R]

How would enforcement change from how it is already? It's just the limit that changing, the rest should stay the same no?

Typical politician. Can't enforce the existing law, so change the law to be stricter. Wonder why they are a laughing stock?

 

[Nerfherder]

How would enforcement change from how it is already? It's just the limit that changing, the rest should stay the same no?

One of the arguments against is exactly this. The enforcement is bad so changing the limit will do nothing.

 

[HumanShield]

This just presents another very easy opportunity for the local metro police to solicit easy bribes.

 

[DrJohnZoidberg]

One of the arguments against is exactly this. The enforcement is bad so changing the limit will do nothing.

That's not a very good argument though, I don't see how it matters as these are two separate things. Enforcement can be improved regardless of what the limit is.

I'm not really bothered by what they choose to do, I don't drink at all when I drive and making it zero makes things easier imo. Just don't drink at all if you plan to drive, then there is no uncertainty whether because you weigh 900KGs you can drink more than the other guys, etc.

 

[rustypup]

making it zero makes things easier imo.

Your body produces alcohol. There is no "zero".

The ignorance around this is a big part of the problem.

 

[Gordon_R]

That's not a very good argument though, I don't see how it matters as these are two separate things. Enforcement can be improved regardless of what the limit is.

I'm not really bothered by what they choose to do, I don't drink at all when I drive and making it zero makes things easier imo. Just don't drink at all if you plan to drive, then there is no uncertainty whether because you weigh 900KGs you can drink more than the other guys, etc.

Reducing it to the UN recommended limit of 0.02 would be easy. But no, it has to be zero. We have to be seen to be tough, even if we can't enforce the law. We have a new Minister of Police, but still the same mentality...

 

[DrJohnZoidberg]

Your body produces alcohol. There is no "zero".

The ignorance around this is a big part of the problem.

Ye, pretty sure that's not at all what anyone is referring to here. Zero as in zero tolerance, no dops.

There are countries that already do this, not like it's some new revelation: https://www.discovercars.com/drink-driving-limits

 

[Johand]

This will just backfire completely. A lot of people will see this as unreasonable and ignore it. And if you ignore that for one drink you might as well have two because you have broken the law already.

Just. Enforce. The. Law.

I think we need to reduce the number of laws in this country and strictly enforce the others- not because I think they are bad - it is just if people don't see consequences for breaking the law it might as well not exist at all.

 

[Nerfherder]

That's not a very good argument though, I don't see how it matters as these are two separate things. Enforcement can be improved regardless of what the limit is.

I'm not really bothered by what they choose to do, I don't drink at all when I drive and making it zero makes things easier imo. Just don't drink at all if you plan to drive, then there is no uncertainty whether because you weigh 900KGs you can drink more than the other guys, etc.

The real argument is that many things can cause your blood alcohol limit to be non zero. Cough syrup and desert are two examples. there are medicines that will do the same.
The current limit doesn't mean you can have a drink or 2, it means trivial things won't cause the breathalyzer to trigger.

 

[DrJohnZoidberg]

The real argument is that many things can cause your blood alcohol limit to be non zero. Cough syrup and desert are two examples. there are medicines that will do the same.
The current limit doesn't mean you can have a drink or 2, it means trivial things won't cause the breathalyzer to trigger.

That's a much better argument.

How do countries that already have zero tolerance handle this though?

 

[Sworaxe]

That's not a very good argument though, I don't see how it matters as these are two separate things. Enforcement can be improved regardless of what the limit is.

I'm not really bothered by what they choose to do, I don't drink at all when I drive and making it zero makes things easier imo. Just don't drink at all if you plan to drive, then there is no uncertainty whether because you weigh 900KGs you can drink more than the other guys, etc.

Yeah False flags are totally not a thing in this world.

Cough medicine can flag you as being over the limit, as well as certain foods.
When its a company that has a 0 tolerance limit, you have to prove with blood tests you aren't under the influence.
You can resolve the dispute relatively quickly with most companies.

Now imagine doing the same with the government, you know it's going to be an absolute nightmare to disprove a false flag.
Dealing with people that have little to no interest in even being at work never mind actually doing their jobs.
Once again making law abiding citizens bear the burden of useless law enforcement and government policy.

Everything manufactured ever, has tolerances to permit imperfections.
But somehow, we can apply perfect 0% tolerance to this alcohol testing through a dysfunctional government and corrupt law enforcement.

Yeah fkn right.

 

[warrenpridgeon]

That's not a very good argument though, I don't see how it matters as these are two separate things. Enforcement can be improved regardless of what the limit is.

I'm not really bothered by what they choose to do, I don't drink at all when I drive and making it zero makes things easier imo. Just don't drink at all if you plan to drive, then there is no uncertainty whether because you weigh 900KGs you can drink more than the other guys, etc.

There's no real point changing the rules until enforcement is better... it results in expenditure on training and whatever else (campaigns, equipment, awareness drives, documentation reprinting). Each of those things is going to have a level of fraud/corruption involved meaning it costs a LOT... for something that doesn't properly get enforced at the current levels.

 

[rustypup]

as well as certain foods.

Famously, hot cross buns.

 

[rustypup]

pretty sure that's not at all what anyone is referring to here

You don't cANCer all that well, do you?

 

[Nerfherder]

That's a much better argument.

How do countries that already have zero tolerance handle this though?

So Dubai has it and its a prime example of why it doesn't work. Also we are not a religious ethnostate so its not something we should try and emulate.

 

[Nerfherder]

This will just backfire completely. A lot of people will see this as unreasonable and ignore it. And if you ignore that for one drink you might as well have two because you have broken the law already.

Just. Enforce. The. Law.

I think we need to reduce the number of laws in this country and strictly enforce the others- not because I think they are bad - it is just if people don't see consequences for breaking the law it might as well not exist at all.

The bottom line is they need to show how dropping the limit will actually improve things.

How many accidents happen where the driver has less than 0.24mg per 1000ml of alcohol and caused (or was even involved) in an accident.