Elon Musk offered to pay for high-speed Internet for 2.4 million South African school students

Johand said:
And even if all this is true Spacex can create a local subsidiary spacex South Africa which it does an empowerment deal which the banks fund. At a maximum they only need to do 30% of the *South African* business even if you decids to do it the most difficult way possible . So this "30% of SpaceX" is true and utter garbage. No law requires 30% of Spacex total shareholding.
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They're offering an option. SA gov says fsck you, do it our way where we do things differently for ICASA vs say Microsoft. So then really no Starlink. Backwater continues to be a backwater.
 
Mirai said:
They're offering an option. SA gov says fsck you, do it our way where we do things differently for ICASA vs say Microsoft. So then really no Starlink. Backwater continues to be a backwater.
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Well our government has like 10 or more options to structure it.Elon is just grand standing. Almost every other satelitte operator is in South Africa. Fiber gets landed by Google and Meta. They could launch Starlink tomorrow if they really wanted. But political point scoring is worth more.

The best excuse anybody has come up for not taking up any of the options on the table is that "they don't want to", "they don't need to do it if they don't want to", and "they dont do it like this anywhere else". And the choir boys here is like shouting "BB-BEE and politics is keeping them out". Musk's politics is keeping Starlink out. There are options. There is no absolute "you must be black" or "you must give away 30%" chiseled in stone.
 
Johand said:
Well our government has like 10 or more options to structure it.Elon is just grand standing. Almost every other satelitte operator is in South Africa. Fiber gets landed by Google and Meta. They could launch Starlink tomorrow if they really wanted. But political point scoring is worth more.

The best excuse anybody has come up for not taking up any of the options on the table is that "they don't want to", "they don't need to do it if they don't want to", and "they dont do it like this anywhere else". And the choir boys here is like shouting "BB-BEE and politics is keeping them out". Musk's politics is keeping Starlink out. There are options. There is no absolute "you must be black" or "you must give away 30%" chiseled in stone.
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No they couldn't. They don't sell straight to the end user like Starlink, they use middlemen because they don't have a backbone.1793133160235.png1793133294346.png1793133305324.png1793133519180.png
 
wingnut771 said:
No they couldn't. They don't sell straight to the end user like Starlink, they use middlemen because they don't have a backbone.View attachment 1948708View attachment 1948710View attachment 1948711
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But the other operators are here. I mean I can open an AWS account in a data center in Cape Town and have non-internet routed traffic elsewhere.
There is no law saying that starlink must sell directly to the end user. They choose to not do a model that is wholesale. There are like a million ways they can structure their product in South Africa. So you argue that because SpaceX is inflexible on their product structure that all blame is on our government for being inflexible in empowerment? That is just crazy logic. There is nothing stopping Starlink from launching in South Africa. In fact regardless of BEE, having a local partner to hold accountable for making sure laws are upheld is a good thing - if Spacex decided tomorrow to not comply to court orders on CSAM to protect Epstein's buddies then having a local partner that can be sent to jail is a good thing.
 
Johand said:
But the other operators are here. I mean I can open an AWS account in a data center in Cape Town and have non-internet routed traffic elsewhere.
There is no law saying that starlink must sell directly to the end user. They choose to not do a model that is wholesale. There are like a million ways they can structure their product in South Africa. So you argue that because SpaceX is inflexible on their product structure that all blame is on our government for being inflexible in empowerment? That is just crazy logic. There is nothing stopping Starlink from launching in South Africa. In fact regardless of BEE, having a local partner to hold accountable for making sure laws are upheld is a good thing - if Spacex decided tomorrow to not comply to court orders on CSAM to protect Epstein's buddies then having a local partner that can be sent to jail is a good thing.
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So Starlink must do things differently for special South Africa, the only country in the world they sell Starlink in?

1793134663834.png

I wonder why.
 
wingnut771 said:
So Starlink must do things differently for special South Africa, the only country in the world they sell Starlink in?
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Wow, an international company that needs to adjust slightly to comply with laws in each jurisdiction the operate? Are you kidding me. That is every international company ever. Do you know how much tax laws differ? That is probably a bigger adjustment than tweaking the commercials of your product. Do you know the accounting rules differ between countries? Do you know that car companies have to do slight tweaks to models to comply in each jurisdiction? Should Tesla sell vehicles with steering wheels on the wrong side because they want to import models from the factory that makes them instead of the other factory? Do you know what hoops companies are able to jump through to do tax optimization? And you are telling me that SpaceX, one of the most valuable cash flush companies in the world / history can't make slight changes to their distribution channel because that will upset or inconvenience them? A local restaurant that needs to get their various inspection certificates will have more admin.

Anyway. I am not saying ICASA is not a mess. I am not saying that BB-BEE policies as it stands is perfect. All of it needs work.

But the Starlink not being able to launch because of BEE is a political stunt.

Both those positions can be true.
 
And then I need to ask - do people think that this is "pressuring the government" on BB-BEE? I can promise you Elon Musk doesn't think so. These loud shouts from him is a performance that is all about mostly US politics. Of course some fools are useful tools to just echo things.

So in reality what is the effect of all this? And that is that our government will turn closer and closer to China. They might not have a network as good as starlink but if they launch a network that is good enough? Do you think the politicians are going to read the technical specifications?

So this creates lots of noise for political reasons. The ANC is not going to change their minds because 1% of the population are not getting high bandwidth low latency connections.

The more everybody frames all of this as a all or nothing from all sides and make sure everybody is hot-headed and polarised about this, the less chance there is to address the actual issues.
 
Johand said:
Wow, an international company that needs to adjust slightly to comply with laws in each jurisdiction the operate? Are you kidding me. That is every international company ever. Do you know how much tax laws differ? That is probably a bigger adjustment than tweaking the commercials of your product. Do you know the accounting rules differ between countries? Do you know that car companies have to do slight tweaks to models to comply in each jurisdiction? Should Tesla sell vehicles with steering wheels on the wrong side because they want to import models from the factory that makes them instead of the other factory? Do you know what hoops companies are able to jump through to do tax optimization? And you are telling me that SpaceX, one of the most valuable cash flush companies in the world / history can't make slight changes to their distribution channel because that will upset or inconvenience them? A local restaurant that needs to get their various inspection certificates will have more admin.

Anyway. I am not saying ICASA is not a mess. I am not saying that BB-BEE policies as it stands is perfect. All of it needs work.

But the Starlink not being able to launch because of BEE is a political stunt.

Both those positions can be true.
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No, just South Africa. Why is Starlink in Rwanda but not South Africa? At least there is one billionaire out there that is willing to take a stand.

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We already have Amazon in SA.
Sit tight for Leo.
 
Amazon Leo could help bridge South Africa’s connectivity gap .We just need to give the constellation time to build up.

It’s not going to happen overnight, but at least there’s a concrete initiative aimed at improving connectivity. Something is better than nothing, and it’s certainly better than sitting around complaining that nothing is being done.
 
Johand said:
But the Starlink not being able to launch because of BEE is a political stunt.
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By whom?

The ANC policy is crystal clear: Musk must hand over 30% of his company to "BEEE Partners".

He refuses to do so, because it makes zero business sense.

This BEEE nonsense they demand is for one reason only: to steal and enrich tenderpreneurs and government officials.

If it was to uplift "the people", why are they saying no to 5 000 schools getting free internet in perpetuity??
 
camross007 said:
Amazon Leo could help bridge South Africa’s connectivity gap .We just need to give the constellation time to build up.

It’s not going to happen overnight, but at least there’s a concrete initiative aimed at improving connectivity. Something is better than nothing, and it’s certainly better than sitting around complaining that nothing is being done.
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Starlink operates over 11,150 satellites, whereas Amazon Leo maintains an active fleet of 392 satellites
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Lol Amazon is farting in a thunderstorm.
 
Smiggles said:
Lol Amazon is farting in a thunderstorm.
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Amazon has booked enough flights to get their constellation up to snuff. The problem is that the flights are all on rockets that are not yet flying or doing so in low cadence. Their satellite factory has produced more than 1000 sats and they are awaiting launch/deployment.

Amazon has more capital than god, so the LEO network will launch and it will match Starlink eventually. I'm willing to bet it'll surpass Starlink in terms of Business/Enterprise offerings due to AWS. You can use LEO and login to your enterprise network/services thats hosted on AWS without ever touching the internet.
 
Sopbeen said:
Amazon has booked enough flights to get their constellation up to snuff. The problem is that the flights are all on rockets that are not yet flying or doing so in low cadence. Their satellite factory has produced more than 1000 sats and they are awaiting launch/deployment.

Amazon has more capital than god, so the LEO network will launch and it will match Starlink eventually. I'm willing to bet it'll surpass Starlink in terms of Business/Enterprise offerings due to AWS. You can use LEO and login to your enterprise network/services thats hosted on AWS without ever touching the internet.
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I have a bridge to sell you.
 
Smiggles said:
I have a bridge to sell you.
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Do you think Amazon invested hundreds of millions of dollars to get their factory and tech developed, just to give up? They have earmarked $20bn for LEO... They bought GlobalStar for $11.5bn literally for the sole purpose of getting spectrum/licenses/assets.

But yea I'm sure they're just doing it for the lulz.
 
Sopbeen said:
Do you think Amazon invested hundreds of millions of dollars to get their factory and tech developed, just to give up? They have earmarked $20bn for LEO... They bought GlobalStar for $11.5bn literally for the sole purpose of getting spectrum/licenses/assets.

But yea I'm sure they're just doing it for the lulz.
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At 90% more cost per trip compared to Starship I'm sure they are...
 
Smiggles said:
At 90% more cost per trip compared to Starship I'm sure they are...
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You mean the rocket that loses half its engines per ignition? The same rocket that (according to Mrs Musk) would have sent payloads to Mars by now? With F9 slated for retirement, they better figure out the gremlins plaguing the engines since V1. We're on V3 and its still happening...

When you have to toss every rocket due to unreliable engines, your business model & cost looks the same as every other launcher out there.

Amazon will have Blue Origin to do most of the heavy lifting - they'll be lobbing sats soon enough.
 
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