Choose a language.

[ettubrute]

Anybody out there still using Fortran? I loved the power of it's numerical engine! But I suppose it's almost dead...

Also, what's the SA market like for Delphi? I know it's quite big in Europe, and growing as well. Again, liked it very much. (Have to, since I was a beta tester for Delphi 1... can't fail Borland now! )

 

[Darth Garth]

Anybody out there still using Fortran?

We still use Cobol .

 

[ettubrute]

So that's where you learned to type such a lot!

Did Cobol as well, and actually still have a diploma for it! But all that typing made me mad!

 

[Prometheus]

Anybody out there still using Fortran? I loved the power of it's numerical engine! But I suppose it's almost dead...

Isn't that the one where you have only 7 predefined variables to use?

Also, what's the SA market like for Delphi? I know it's quite big in Europe, and growing as well. Again, liked it very much. (Have to, since I was a beta tester for Delphi 1... can't fail Borland now! )

I think the market is quite good. They still teach Pascal in schools and Delphi is just a variation on it. It's very easy to learn, but not very powerful unless you combine it with another language.

 

[ettubrute]

They still teach Pascal in schools and Delphi is just a variation on it. It's very easy to learn, but not very powerful unless you combine it with another language.

Not powerful? I beg to differ... have seen the most amazing programs written completely in Delphi!

But, like with all things in life, people's tastes differ...

 

[swordfish1]

I think the market is quite good. They still teach Pascal in schools and Delphi is just a variation on it. It's very easy to learn, but not very powerful unless you combine it with another language.

I doubt that the market for Delphi is too good, with .NET which have stolen most of the Delphi's IDE, I think Delphi is going to die for new dev in a few years time. Pascal in general, although very easy language, it is very difficult to maintain and last time I used Delphi (version 5 I think) the IDE was crashing every 15 minutes ...

The number one misconception is that C++ is the most difficult language. It is not. I have found that if you only use the features that exists in the other languages then it's just as easy to learn. C++ gives you that edge of being able to manipulate pointers and memory directly and to insert asm code if you need it. You don't however need to learn or use all these features and there are a number of very good programs that don't use any of it. It's just there for when you might need it.

I agree that you can learn only the basics of C++, which are not much more difficult than Java or C#, but then what's the point in learning C++ on first place ... I doubt you know STL and Boost C++ libraries, but the stuff those libraries do are virtually unachievable in any other language that I have heard of. When I say unachievable, I mean that you cannot program certain things in other languages that are so generic and reusable and so short to write as in C++. One of the ultimate examples is the Boost's Spirit library.

 

[swordfish1]

You use middleware J2EE application servers to deploy your Java apps to the web ... JBoss which Redhat recently purchased for few hundred million dollars is written in Java itself.

Also the Tomcat webserver which handles Java server side scripting is written in Java itself.

I can't comment on what you saying, but all I can say is that the couple of times I have used Java, there have always been some memory issues. After an application runs for a while, its memory usage inexplicably grows to a point where the OS refuses to allocate more memory to the JVM, and then of course the Java application crashes! I had to do numerous hacks to go around the problem, and I am sick of it. In C++ if you have a memory leaks, there are libraries that you can use to detect all memory leaks. Usually before making a release one checks all memory leaks and fixes them, it takes minutes. If it depends on me, Java is the very last language that I will ever use!

Also I happen to use some Java application for long periods of times (like 10-15 hours a day). They will always use too much memory (hundreds of MB for just streaming and displaying text data!!!), will often freeze, be unresponsive etc etc ... I am sick and tired from java

 

[stoke]

C# FTW ... and you can do pointer manipulation and assembly in C# [with difficulty]
C# is for managed code, C++ for unmanaged.
If you are writing business apps then C# is fine.
If you are writing performance apps / games you need C++ / Pascal for proper control.

 

[Prometheus]

I can't comment on what you saying, but all I can say is that the couple of times I have used Java, there have always been some memory issues. After an application runs for a while, its memory usage inexplicably grows to a point where the OS refuses to allocate more memory to the JVM, and then of course the Java application crashes! I had to do numerous hacks to go around the problem, and I am sick of it. In C++ if you have a memory leaks, there are libraries that you can use to detect all memory leaks. Usually before making a release one checks all memory leaks and fixes them, it takes minutes. If it depends on me, Java is the very last language that I will ever use!

Afaik you can't delete any specific memory you are using in Java, so you have to call the garbage remover to remove all the unused memory.

C# is for managed code, C++ for unmanaged.

I disagree. C++ was written specifically with Object Oriented Design in mind. C++ code written properly is very manageable. If a person doesn't know how to program properly then even C# will become unmanageable.

 

[swordfish1]

Afaik you can't delete any specific memory you are using in Java, so you have to call the garbage remover to remove all the unused memory.

I know, but have you tried that in practice ... it doesn't work! It may or may not happen! Nothing is certain with the Java garbage collection!

I disagree. C++ was written specifically with Object Oriented Design in mind. C++ code written properly is very manageable. If a person doesn't know how to program properly then even C# will become unmanageable.

he means "manageable" like manageable by the .NET framework, not that the code itself is manageable or not

 

[rburley]

thanx for feedback guys.
great stuff

 

[devnull]

java sux, its too slow, the point of web applications is that you don't want to install software on the clients pc. c rocks its small and fast but be prepared to do allot of typing. c++ compilers suck. the language is ok tho its a bit of a black hole it just gets more and more complicated the longer you look at it. i (have to) use a number of different languages in my job and i rate perl as tops!

 

[Moederloos]

horses for courses, once again.

My current pet-language is PHP. I have coded in everything from assembler to logo (you know, the thing with the turtle? rp 4 [FD 40 RT 90]? Anyone? )

The bottom line is: if you can code, you can do so in any language - they are all the same, only difference is syntax.

 

[devnull]

horses for courses, once again.

My current pet-language is PHP. I have coded in everything from assembler to logo (you know, the thing with the turtle? rp 4 [FD 40 RT 90]? Anyone? )

The bottom line is: if you can code, you can do so in any language - they are all the same, only difference is syntax.

this is the ultimate, to use the best language for the job, each one has its own good features, once you know c/c++ you should be able to pick up the rest quickly. i think it took me about 4 days to learn php well enough to write a decent webpage with quite a bit of functionality, obviously with a book open infront of me but still.

 

[Prometheus]

java sux, its too slow, the point of web applications is that you don't want to install software on the clients pc. c rocks its small and fast but be prepared to do allot of typing. c++ compilers suck. the language is ok tho its a bit of a black hole it just gets more and more complicated the longer you look at it. i (have to) use a number of different languages in my job and i rate perl as tops!

Perl is a cgi language. This thread is about application programming if I remember correctly. Yes Java is slow compared to other languages, but if you want to run an application on the client side then it is really the only alternative. Other applications like Flash require even more installations and plugins. There are a lot of good C++ compilers out there. Forget Borland, it's a real dinosaur. Haven't had a real update in over 5 years and it's resource linker is still "broken" ever since.

 

[devnull]

Perl is a cgi language. This thread is about application programming if I remember correctly. Yes Java is slow compared to other languages, but if you want to run an application on the client side then it is really the only alternative. Other applications like Flash require even more installations and plugins. There are a lot of good C++ compilers out there. Forget Borland, it's a real dinosaur. Haven't had a real update in over 5 years and it's resource linker is still "broken" ever since.

perl is not a cgi language, it has a cgi module, but it was designed for generating reports. there is also perl script much like java/vb script for the browser

 

[Prometheus]

perl is not a cgi language, it has a cgi module, but it was designed for generating reports. there is also perl script much like java/vb script for the browser

But it wasn't intended as an advanced language. It's a scripting language to be more precise and is interpreted by another application. This was originally about choosing a full fledged programming language to write applications with. The options listed were C++, C#, Java, and Visual Basic. Which reminds me... RBurley, if your listening, what did you choose?

Also saw this just now:

oh and another thing...
do any of you know of a website that compares langauges for n00bs or maybe even like a guide or something?

Maybe this ties in somehow...
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=43066