Something Other Than Adaptation Could Be Driving Evolution

[DJ...]

Evolution and the direction of it don't appear random to me. Neither does it appear to be fully deterministic.

Why would you argue that it does?

Well you've got to place your argument somewhere in between, and I'm struggling to understand where that place lies...?

 

[RiaX]

Evolution and the direction of it don't appear random to me. Neither does it appear to be fully deterministic.

Why would you argue that it does?

Of course it wont appear random to you because everything is relative to the ecosystem (generally speaking). Things that evolve difficult reproductive methods or poor eyes for example that are bad to the environment they live in become extinct.

Look at the african penguin, its reproductive cycle makes no sense considering what the animal is adapted to do. Parents dont keep their eggs warm they keep them cool from the harsh african sun where temperatures reach 40 degrees Celsius. These birds die of heat strokes and some years there are no chicks born. This is a blow to their population and they will probably end up extinct without human intervention unless they evolve.

So creatures will evolve in every direction, natural selection ensures that only those capable of surviving survive giving the illusion of a process thats not random.

The process of evolution is random, the product of evolution with the its driving force of natural selection is not

 

[Techne]

Of course it wont appear random to you because everything is relative to the ecosystem (generally speaking). Things that evolve difficult reproductive methods or poor eyes for example that are bad to the environment they live in become extinct.

Look at the african penguin, its reproductive cycle makes no sense considering what the animal is adapted to do. Parents dont keep their eggs warm they keep them cool from the harsh african sun where temperatures reach 40 degrees Celsius. These birds die of heat strokes and some years there are no chicks born. This is a blow to their population and they will probably end up extinct without human intervention unless they evolve.

So creatures will evolve in every direction, natural selection ensures that only those capable of surviving survive giving the illusion of a process thats not random.

The process of evolution is random, the product of evolution with the its driving force of natural selection is not

Environmental changes, weird reproductive cycles and extinctions are interesting, however, none of this demonstrates that evolution is random. Do people that think evolution is random have an argument for why they think the process is random? Some links to consider:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13698-evolution-myths-evolution-is-random.html
http://old.richarddawkins.net/articles/2141

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/faq/cat01.html :

Evolution is not a random process.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/chance/chance.html :

Nevertheless, evolution is not fundamentally a random process.

 

[RiaX]

again concept and observations .....

 

[Swa]

Hmm... African penguins that supposedly survived for millions of years before man entered the picture will suddenly now become extinct. Interesting...

 

[Techne]

again concept and observations .....

Both the concept of evolution and observation do NOT suggest evolution is a random process, contrary to your claim that:

The process of evolution is random, the product of evolution with the its driving force of natural selection is not

Concept:
"Evolution is not a random process." (pbs.org)
"Nevertheless, evolution is not fundamentally a random process." (talkorigins)
"Evolution is not a "random" process, and to characterize it as such seriously misleads students" (Kenneth Miller)
"Evolution is not a random process." (Introduction to evolution on wiki).
Evolution myths: Evolution is random (New Scientists)

Observation
New Findings Confirm Darwin's Theory: Evolution Not Random (cited on richarddawkins.net)

So what is your motivation for thinking evolution is in fact a random process? Do you have an arguments to support your view?

 

[RiaX]

Hmm... African penguins that supposedly survived for missions of years before man entered the picture will suddenly now become extinct. Interesting...

no one said suddenly ....

swa you annoying go away from anything to do with science.

@ techne

I will need some time to read that stuff. Time is a luxury I dont have atm. I will respond later

 

[Swa]

What did they become extinct over millions of years then? It seems you're the one not understanding science as usual.

 

[RiaX]

What did they become extinct over millions of years then? It seems you're the one not understanding science as usual.

this statement makes no sense. They arent extinct moron their population is in decline naturally like the protea flower.

These are simple things to understand.

You better take some vitD your brain has trouble understanding basic ideas

 

[zippy]

errr .... i dont get this article ?

Evolution has no direction ... The thing that shapes life is natural selection. Bad evolution is eliminated because it cant survive. To me this is like saying "refraction is a photon" or am I missing something

The protea plant/flower is endangered because it has a stupid reproductive cycle that requires fire and very specific conditions and hence its endangered, even in areas where there are no human influences ecologists have reported a decline ... so obviously thats the forces of natural selection. It evolved this mechanism, it sucks so its dying off

Possibly it's more about variation being random and not really a direct response to the environment. Natural selection then determines which variation is more likely to succeed. Changes in the environment might trigger that some variation is needed but won't neccessarily trigger the ideal variation and over a very long period of time a number of variations become evident.

The smaller the lifeform the more variations succeed, it seems. This might just be because larger life forms tend to reproduce at lower rates..., and therefore the risk of extinction is higher due to lack of bio diversity. Humans compensate for this by being able to modify their environment.

 

[Swa]

this statement makes no sense. They arent extinct moron their population is in decline naturally like the protea flower.

These are simple things to understand.

You better take some vitD your brain has trouble understanding basic ideas

Seems you're the one not understanding. That's what happens when you take the pharmaceutical company advice and only rely on the sun, and then not getting enough of it.

YOU said they would probably become extinct if they are not saved. To which I replied that they supposedly survived for millions of years without human intervention but "requires" it now that humans are in the picture. I've had it with your continued insults. Either engage in constructive debate or shut up.