Joule - awesome homegrown electric (April issue CAR Magazine)

Rouxenator

Rouxenator

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For all those of you not subscribed to CAR Magazine I can recommend getting your hands on the April issue when it hits store shelves. It has an excellent section about Optimal Energy's Joule and why the project has seemingly gone quiet lately.

The team from CAR magazine had the chance to drive the Joule from Woodstock out to Rooi Els and back and said the handling and speed is completely different from what you may have heard of in other electric cars. Seems like we have our own baby Tesla going here in SA ;)

Sadly the government is not so keen to fund the project and they are now looking for international backing which could see us loose some of the homegrown innovation that went into this car.

Interestingly it is based on an Opel Zafira (Astra) platform, so no wonder the ride is excellent, and most of the interior switches and steering wheel is from the Corsa D, brilliant choice yet again if you want a quality feel in the cabin.

I would be very keen to buy one if they every do go on sale and I think electric is the future for cars. Anyone else agree / disagree? Would love to hear what fellow motorheads think of the Joule.
 
Opel parts and platform = quality? lol... ahu

It's sad to see the government stubbing their noses at a project that can make South Africa even more famous world-wide. Imagine if manufacturing were done here and we exported the cars overseas and the demand grows? The jobs it would create and the international $ we'd get...

But alas, the government can't think further than "eish, I need a new BMW"
 
Rouxenator said:
I would be very keen to buy one if they every do go on sale and I think electric is the future for cars. Anyone else agree / disagree? Would love to hear what fellow motorheads think of the Joule.
Click to expand...

I think EVs are the way of the future and I will jump at the opportunity to own one if a manufacturer produces one that competes on price with the current generation of fossil fuel powered vehicles.
I'm not interested in R3000 per month battery leases or paying over R250K for a run around EV.
Until there is a cost saving advantage to owning and operating an EV people are going to shy away from them.

People would buy EV's in mass if they:
1. Cost less than R200K
2. Have a range of 160km on a single charge
3. Have battery leases of R1000 per month or less

Toyota Prius: R335000 (hybrid - not pure EV)
Nissan Leaf: R367000 (if you include the charging station and adding 50% for customs duty and VAT)
Mitsubishi iMiEV: R493500 (50% for customs duty and VAT added)
Nuff said ...
 
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What I would actually like from an EV is something like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIEV

I want 200km on a charge and here is the tricky part, instead of having to recharge, why don't they just make 4 or 5 different types of battery packs for different types of cars and keep fresh packs at garages? So you have your normal "fuel stop" but instead of refueling or recharging the attendants simple swap your battery pack. I do say attendants (plural) because it will no doubt not be a one man job.

That way we keep the change in going from petrol to electric to a minimum without disrupting the industry (service stations).
 
160km on a single charge?
So how long would it take for another charge and until the car can get back on the road?
I get the feeling that EV's aren't suitable for people who travel long distances....and that might be the biggest drawback second to the PRICE!
 
Well, if they can implement it so that batteries can be swapped easily at any service station, and they can get the range up to 200km~300km then I do not see how it can fail. Sure you can recharge at night when you are home, but for long distance you need to get fresh batteries within 5 to 10 minutes, not 8 hours.
 
GavinTTC956GP said:
I get the feeling that EV's aren't suitable for people who travel long distances....
Click to expand...

Medium to long distances are where EVs would shine because of the fuel savings. The more you drive the more you save.
That would probably be the biggest selling point for EVs' especially in SA where people aren't too concerned about being "green".

Also freeway use would be the best place to get the maximum range (and hence savings) out of an EV - not stop-start short haul city driving where the acceleration and deceleration eat up energy.
In SA having a range of less than 100km would not work for a lot of people doing the PTA-JHB commute for example - that only allows for a 50km journey to work and if you don't have a full charge or you need to go see some clients during work hours you have a problem.

I like Rouxenator's idea of swappable battery packs at service stations. The only issue is that battery technology is it's one of the big, proprietary secrets (with patents) of the EV manufacturers and they're not going to want to play with each other unless a governing body says they must. Battery technology is the biggest R&D cost in an EV and also the biggest differentiator between manufacturers.
 
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I would have thought the guavamint would jump to get this project moving as quick as possible. The amount of jobs something like this can create would be massive if this little car takes off and sells well in the international market. Ai ai ai. Short sightedness for you hey.
 
AcidRaZor said:
Opel parts and platform = quality? lol... ahu

It's sad to see the government stubbing their noses at a project that can make South Africa even more famous world-wide. Imagine if manufacturing were done here and we exported the cars overseas and the demand grows? The jobs it would create and the international $ we'd get...

But alas, the government can't think further than "eish, I need a new BMW"
Click to expand...

But the government needs to protect the existing car sector! Imagine how many taxes will get lost! /sarcasm

I do agree with you, this could be the start of a whole new industry where SA can be one of the leaders.
 
Paul_S said:
Medium to long distances are where EVs would shine because of the fuel savings. The more you drive the more you save.

Also freeway use would be the best place to get the maximum range (and hence savings) out of an EV - not stop-start short haul city driving where the acceleration and deceleration eat up energy.
Click to expand...

No, no and no...
Normal car uses petrol when stationary. EV uses nothing
Normal car loses energy when braking. EV generates energy when braking.

Hence stop start driving is where EV's shine, not the open road.
 
Archer said:
No, no and no...
Normal car uses petrol when stationary. EV uses nothing
Normal car loses energy when braking. EV generates energy when braking.
Hence stop start driving is where EV's shine, not the open road.
Click to expand...

It depends on the driving style and speeds. The energy used to accelerate usually far outweighs the energy used to cruise non-stop on a free way even when factoring in no loss of fuel when stopped and regenerative breaking.

For example the Nissan Leaf range according to an owner:
- Cruising at 60km/h on open road = 220km
- Averaging 38 km/h in city traffic drops range to 169km
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/06/14/nissan-pegs-leaf-range-between-47-and-138-miles-individual-resu


According to Nissan's EPA L4 test cycles:
Heavy stop-and-go traffic with aircon on = 76km range
Highway cruising with aircon on = 110km range
 
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I actually noticed in this month's car mag that the Nissan Leaf is due in SA (in the little section that shows all the upcoming release dates). That's rather exciting, as I didn't think we'd get the Leaf here.
 
BCO said:
I actually noticed in this month's car mag that the Nissan Leaf is due in SA (in the little section that shows all the upcoming release dates). That's rather exciting, as I didn't think we'd get the Leaf here.
Click to expand...

I wonder what it will cost in SA considering that it is not manufactured locally and we don't get large rebates for using an EV like they do in the USA.

* Customs duty = 36% (motor cars more than 20 years old are subject to 20% customs duty)
* Ad valorem customs duty (based on a sliding scale depending on the value of the vehicle, with a minimum of 0.75% and a maximum of 20%)
* Value-added tax (VAT) = 14%

On a R200 000 vehicle all those duties and taxes comes to about R140 000 so you end up paying R340 000 for a vehicle that costs R200 000 overseas.
Of course since Nissan are importing the vehicle themselves they will probably work on their cost value for the import and not the retail so it will be less.
I'd take a guess the Leaf will cost between R250 000 and R300 000 in SA when it is launched.
 
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ocleroux said:
Never mind that....it must run on Sea Water....and the exhaust is nothing but fresh water vapour ready to be consumed! :-)
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Which would also assist with/curb rising sea levels and global warming......I think we're onto something here :D
 
Paul_S said:
It depends on the driving style and speeds. The energy used to accelerate usually far outweighs the energy used to cruise non-stop on a free way even when factoring in no loss of fuel when stopped and regenerative breaking.
Click to expand...

So are you trying to tell me that a petrol car is more energy efficient than an EV in stop start traffic??? Cause thats what I was getting at. Since stop start traffic is where 99% of us spend 99% of our time, thats kinda what you should be looking at. And thats why EV's shine in that scenario, not open road driving. Especially when you consider that a petrol/diesel car can go 1000km+ on a single tank, whereas an EV would need a ton or more of batteries for the same range.
 
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