Local cartoon complaint dismissed by BCCSA

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Our constitution says

Freedom of expression

Everyone has the right to freedom of expression, which includes *
freedom of the press and other media;
freedom to receive or impart information or ideas;
freedom of artistic creativity; and
academic freedom and freedom of scientific research.

The right in subsection (1) does not extend to *
propaganda for war;
incitement of imminent violence; or
advocacy of hatred that is based on race, ethnicity, gender or religion, and that constitutes incitement to cause harm.


So unless the cartoon advocates hatred of Christians then its OK.
Criticising or lampooning a religion does not amount to hatred.
 
Biscuit1018 said:
Our constitution says

Freedom of expression

Everyone has the right to freedom of expression, which includes *
freedom of the press and other media;
freedom to receive or impart information or ideas;
freedom of artistic creativity; and
academic freedom and freedom of scientific research.

The right in subsection (1) does not extend to *
propaganda for war;
incitement of imminent violence; or
advocacy of hatred that is based on race, ethnicity, gender or religion, and that constitutes incitement to cause harm.


So unless the cartoon advocates hatred of Christians then its OK.
Criticising or lampooning a religion does not amount to hatred.
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Yes, but certain religious extremists may take drastic (and harmful) measures in an attempt to have the cartoon withdrawn. Islamic extremists may bomb themselves up in public areas in protest. Uncultured South Africans may take to the streets and trash everything in site, stone cars, and beat up those who get in their way, simply because they find the carton offensive, either to their religion, or the ANC.

A cartoon does not explicitly need to tell people to do violence, for it to incite violence. Nowadays what many find acceptable, another finds offensive.
 
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Jesus and God don't exist, so not sure what the problem is. It's just a cartoon lampooning a fairytale.
 
MiY4Gi said:
Yes, but certain religious extremists may take drastic (and harmful) measures in an attempt to have the cartoon withdrawn. Islamic extremists may bomb themselves up in public areas in protest. Uncultured South Africans may take to the streets and trash everything in site, stone cars, and beat up those who get in their way, simply because they find the carton offensive, either to their religion, or the ANC.

A cartoon does not explicitly need to tell people to do violence, for it to incite violence. Nowadays what many find acceptable, another finds offensive.
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You cannot have people violate the constitution through ransoming the country with threats of violence. The police and military are there to handle violent protests should they happen (In an ideal world, anyway). If you censor someone purely because of the threat of violence, you're heading down a very slippery slope. Where would you draw the line?

Personally I think examples should be made out of violent protesters although that will probably open up a whole different can of worms.
 
deweyzeph said:
Jesus and God don't exist, so not sure what the problem is. It's just a cartoon lampooning a fairytale.
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Good heavens you're being an idiot. These are people's beliefs and they are entitled to them. Telling these people that what they believe is wrong and thus they shouldn't feel offended is a pretty stupid approach to diplomacy.
 
Messugga said:
Good heavens you're being an idiot. These are people's beliefs and they are entitled to them. Telling these people that what they believe is wrong and thus they shouldn't feel offended is a pretty stupid approach to diplomacy.
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Jesus and God and Mohammed and Allah and all of the Hindu gods exist, mkay. Especially the top five Ganesha, Shiva, Rama, Krishna and Hanuman. What was this comic artist thinking :rolleyes:
 
Slootvreter said:
Jesus and God and Mohammed and Allah and all of the Hindu gods exist, mkay. Especially the top five Ganesha, Shiva, Rama, Krishna and Hanuman. What was this comic artist thinking :rolleyes:
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I didn't say that. I said that telling believers that their beliefs are just plain wrong and that they should get over what they feel is not the correct approach to follow if you want something constructive to come from the situation.
 
Messugga said:
I didn't say that. I said that telling believers that their beliefs are just plain wrong and that they should get over what they feel is not the correct approach to follow if you want something constructive to come from the situation.
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Well you can either tell somebody in a nice way that it's just a story or you can just be blatantly honest. Every person is going to go about this differently.
 
Messugga said:
Good heavens you're being an idiot. These are people's beliefs and they are entitled to them. Telling these people that what they believe is wrong and thus they shouldn't feel offended is a pretty stupid approach to diplomacy.
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Well, sorry to say, their beliefs are misguided. You wouldn't hesitate to criticise somebody if they believed that the Toothfairy and Santa Claus existed, would you? Well, religious belief is no different, and just as damaging.
 
I think what Messugga is saying is that it's stupid to just tell people their beliefs are a fairytale. It doesn't achieve anything except for perhaps making you feel better about yourself in some superiority complex way. You aren't going to change their thinking by approaching the situation in that way. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
DrJohnZoidberg said:
Well you can either tell somebody in a nice way that it's just a story or you can just be blatantly honest. Every person is going to go about this differently.
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Yes yes but diplomacy! It's not that difficult a concept. Treat someone in a cruel manner and they're more likely to try and blow you up. Do it with some modicum of respect and they may be less so.
 
Pooky said:
I think what Messugga is saying is that it's stupid to just tell people their beliefs are a fairytale. It doesn't achieve anything except for perhaps making you feel better about yourself in some superiority complex way. You aren't going to change their thinking by approaching the situation in that way. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Nope, you're absolutely correct. I honestly don't understand why a lot of athiests can't be reasonable about this. You're asking people to make MAJOR life-altering decisions but you're doing so in a completely dick-ish way. There was a time when homosexual people were treated in a similar manner until the world finally woke up and decided to treat them fairly. Similar sort of situation here.
 
Messugga said:
You cannot have people violate the constitution through ransoming the country with threats of violence. The police and military are there to handle violent protests should they happen (In an ideal world, anyway). If you censor someone purely because of the threat of violence, you're heading down a very slippery slope. Where would you draw the line?

Personally I think examples should be made out of violent protesters although that will probably open up a whole different can of worms.
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That's interesting. So you're saying that even if a cartoon, which doesn't explicitly tell people to do violence, causes people to kill one another, then the law can't do anything about the cartoon? You're saying the only way the law can handle it is by locking up those that inflict the violence?
 
MiY4Gi said:
That's interesting. So you're saying that even if a cartoon, which doesn't explicitly tell people to do violence, causes people to kill one another, then the law can't do anything about the cartoon? You're saying the only way the law can handle it is by locking up those that inflict the violence?
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That makes perfect sense to me ;)
 
MiY4Gi said:
That's interesting. So you're saying that even if a cartoon, which doesn't explicitly tell people to do violence, causes people to kill one another, then the law can't do anything about the cartoon? You're saying the only way the law can handle it is by locking up those that inflict the violence?
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Well, there's a hierarchy and human rights and whatnot. I'm not a judge so I can't make that call but in my probably overly-simplistic view yes, the law should handle those inflicting violence, not infringe on the rights of someone else. As I said, it's a slippery slope and where do you draw the line? Here's a hypothetical example: You have a gunman who says he's going to kill 100 people if you don't kill 10 different people. Do you kill the 10 different people to save the 100 people? Logically, yes, but that's sort of against those peoples' rights so the law says you can't do that. That leaves you to do something about the gunman. The question is, how do you deal with him?
 
MiY4Gi said:
Yes, but certain religious extremists may take drastic (and harmful) measures in an attempt to have the cartoon withdrawn. Islamic extremists may bomb themselves up in public areas in protest. Uncultured South Africans may take to the streets and trash everything in site, stone cars, and beat up those who get in their way, simply because they find the carton offensive, either to their religion, or the ANC.

A cartoon does not explicitly need to tell people to do violence, for it to incite violence. Nowadays what many find acceptable, another finds offensive.
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What you say is true BUT we the Constitution is the Constitution.
Just like Zuma had no chance of winning against the 'Spear' or Zapiro these guys also had no chance.
TV Stations can decline to broadcast. Thats their right but people can make the video.

If we clamp down legally on everything that offends people then we will end up banning everything.

I support the rights of people to protest, boycott etc in response to something they dont like.
But no hurting people, no damaging property.
 
deweyzeph said:
Jesus and God don't exist, so not sure what the problem is. It's just a cartoon lampooning a fairytale.
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Yay, the Atheist Evangelist has arrived to spread the Good News and to [-]De[/-]convert all [-]Un[/-]believers! :D

Preach it Brutha!
 
Pooky said:
I think what Messugga is saying is that it's stupid to just tell people their beliefs are a fairytale. It doesn't achieve anything except for perhaps making you feel better about yourself in some superiority complex way. You aren't going to change their thinking by approaching the situation in that way. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Disagree, its a perfectly acceptable way to proclaim what a first class self centered @55#013 you are :D (not at you pooky, btw, at the guys you were rightflly correcting)
 
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