ISDN to ADSL

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Cujo

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I tried to apply for the Do package 1 from telkom and have hit a stumble block, please assist if you can.

1. Because i have an ISDN line at the moment, telkom have told me that they must send out a technician to do something to my line - this will cost me over R400. I asked for the self install, apparently an issue going from ISDN to ADSL requires a technician.
From what i understand even if you have a std telephone line, a telkom techie still has to go out to the exchange to change the ports when you go ADSL - this is free with self install ?. How would this be any different from changing the ISDN port to an ADSL port. Im confused. Are they trying to screw me here ?
 
ISDN runs on digital hence the big white Telkom ISDN box in your house, ADSL runs on analog.
 
All fine and well, but are they justified in telling me i HAVE to get a technician out ?
 
Cancel your ISDN then apply for a self install ADSL line?
 
Bwana, thats what ive been thinking. But i read somewhere that someone moved into a new house that had ISDN from the previous owner. They charged the new owner to have the line converted !
 
Cujo my dear friend, I am currently living the nightmare that is ISDN to ADSL 'conversion'. It has dragged on for 2.5 months now. [1]

Assuming u want/need the free router and dont mind a slightly longer wait [2], my advice is to:
1) Cancel your ISDN, i.e. convert it to standard POTS analogue. (hopefully if there is a charge for the techie to come out, it is less than R200 or so?). I can PM you the number of a guy called Koos who deals with ISDN. It may help going directly to him. It's a Jhb (011) number but he was dealing with my previous order to cancel my ISDN at one point, even tho I am in CT.
2) Once that 'order' is complete, then order your ADSL self-install (from Telkom/Cybersmart/whomever). Note: At present u have to order your self-install from Telkom if u want to get the 'free' wifi ADSL router. This may possibly change at some point in future.

This may or may not take a bit longer, but IMO it is the better choice. U really really dont want to go thru the grief I am going thru trying not to fork out R437.50 for an ISDN to ADSL conversion.

All I want is for them to unplug me from whatever god-forsaken ISDN device sits at the exchange and plug me into the DSLAM and then I can even remove the ISDN NTU myself, but so far I have not been able to speak to someone that knows the technical intricacies and procedural work-arounds to achieve this!

Edit:
[1] It has dragged on because I don't want to give in to paying them R437.50 for something I should be allowed to do myself!
[2] By slightly longer wait I mean 3-5 weeks instead of maybe 2-4 weeks for paying a techie to 'convert' your ISDN line to ADSL. These waiting times are really guesstimates because as we know Telkom is not consistent in their delivery times for ADSL, or anyhting else for that matter!
 
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I phoned 0800 DSL DSL now. They say I have been plugged into the DSLAM since 23 April '07. The consultant cannot verify if the line has been activated unless my router is plugged in and on.

Last night I plugged my router into the analogue ports of the ISDN NTU. The sync light did not go on, even after a few minutes. After a while I unplugged it again cause nothing was happening.

Should I plug it into the wall socket instead, the one that feeds the signal to the ISDN NTU? A bit worried that I might damage something. Actually, I doubt that this will even work? The raw signal coming from the exchange (before the ISDN NTU does its magic) is not an analogue signal. It makes blip noises and the like...

I know that there are routers that can run on DSL via ISDN, but this is not one of them, plus I think the telecoms network has to support it (DSL over ISDN I mean). When I phoned the Telkom IFMC (0800201359) and spoke to one of the consultants there, she said that there was a note for port deallocation (ISDN I believe). That was last Thursday.

From my limited understanding, I think if they just unplug me from the ISDN thing-ma-jig, then I will be getting an analogue POTS signal from the exchange and I will be A-for-away!! Getting them to oblige without sending a techie to my premises is another matter though...

Is there anyone with any kind of advice for me on this? Anyone with technical knowledge that can assist me?

EDIT: Just spoke to a friend now and it may have actually been working last night. 3 lights went on eventually, but the manual was a bit confusing as to what lights are which. Will test again tonight to see.
EDIT 2: OK, according to the manual the 3 lights were to indicate power, system ready and WLAN. The ADSL linesync light did not go on. I may try plugging directly into the wall jack tonight.
 
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unplug the ISDN ntu - and pop in the router to the walljack...

watch your filters luke!

thats it.

in SA, ISDN and ADSL wont be possible on 1 setup.
 
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ryan411 said:
I phoned 0800 DSL DSL now. They say I have been plugged into the DSLAM since 23 April '07. The consultant cannot verify if the line has been activated unless my router is plugged in and on.

Last night I plugged my router into the analogue ports of the ISDN NTU. The sync light did not go on, even after a few minutes. After a while I unplugged it again cause nothing was happening.

Should I plug it into the wall socket instead, the one that feeds the signal to the ISDN NTU? A bit worried that I might damage something. Actually, I doubt that this will even work? The raw signal coming from the exchange (before the ISDN NTU does its magic) is not an analogue signal. It makes blip noises and the like...

I know that there are routers that can run on DSL via ISDN, but this is not one of them, plus I think the telecoms network has to support it (DSL over ISDN I mean). When I phoned the Telkom IFMC (0800201359) and spoke to one of the consultants there, she said that there was a note for port deallocation (ISDN I believe). That was last Thursday.

From my limited understanding, I think if they just unplug me from the ISDN thing-ma-jig, then I will be getting an analogue POTS signal from the exchange and I will be A-for-away!! Getting them to oblige without sending a techie to my premises is another matter though...

Is there anyone with any kind of advice for me on this? Anyone with technical knowledge that can assist me?

EDIT: Just spoke to a friend now and it may have actually been working last night. 3 lights went on eventually, but the manual was a bit confusing as to what lights are which. Will test again tonight to see.
EDIT 2: OK, according to the manual the 3 lights were to indicate power, system ready and WLAN. The ADSL linesync light did not go on. I may try plugging directly into the wall jack tonight.
Click to expand...
You are correct in saying that Telkodemonopolies' local loop setup does not support ISDN and ADSL on the same pair of copper wires, although it is technically possible - for instance in Germany, although BT in the UK disagrees...:rolleyes:

Anyways, the only way that you will be able to find out if the ADSL LED will light up on your ADSL router, is to remove the ISDN CPE|NTU from the equation - not sure about the risk to your ADSL router associated with ISDN DLAM still actively attached to the line at the exchange...
 
to check which setup u have now:


ISDN= if u remove the NTU and plug in the normal RJ11 phone in...should be totally silent.

ADSL=if u remove the NTU and again connect RJ11 phone - u should get dial tone.
 
@ MrNutz: Yeah, I know I have ISDN at present cause ISDN modem still connects and as u say, the phone plugged into RJ11 wall jack ranges from silent (no dial-tone) to funny blip noises...

@ ic: Are u saying the only way to know if the router will sync or possibly be damaged is to plug it in and see what happens?
 
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ryan411 said:
@ MrNutz: Yeah, I know I have ISDN at present cause ISDN modem still connects and as u say, the phone plugged into RJ11 wall jack ranges from silent (no dial-tone) to funny blip noises...

@ ic: Are u saying the only way to know if the router will sync or possibly be damaged is to plug it in and see what happens?
Click to expand...
MrNutz is correct - I should have thought about that - plugging an analogue phone into the wall jack directly with ISDN box removed, should give a normal dial-tone if the line is either analogue or ADSL, if you don't get a dial-tone without the ISDN box then it is still ISDN - which you have already deduced.

IMO this is another example of Telkodemonopolies taling crap and general incompetence, it might be an idea to lodge a billing complaint when you receive your invoice and have been charged for ADSL from 2007-04-23 as the line is clearly still ISDN and not ADSL...

All I can say is that there are loads of people at Telkodemonopolies with pumpkin pips instead of brains.

I don't advise plugging your ADSL router into anything - I seriously doubt it would be able to synch anyways - even if Telkodemonopolies managed to somehow get ISDN and ADSL to work on the same pair of copper wires.
 
@IC - yeah...i agree with the part of them not having alot of braincells.

i've NEVER EVER had a stable 56k , ISDN or ADSL connection..

http://s210.photobucket.com/albums/bb147/jannie40

i've had easily 30 techs at my home...easily 2-4 special investigations...

got spare modems...ups's...RJ11 cables....RJ45 cables....filters...phones..u name it. nothing.

somehow they tend to fix my problems for 2-3 weeks..and it all starts again..

no WISP coverage...3g/hsdpa is not a solution for a heavy user...

I can SCREAM!!!!!!!!

wtf!!

@Ryan411 - dude - get nasty with them...phone them up EACH and EVERY day.......escalate the situation so much that they do make a plan..

i'm taking my bs to Beeld's consumer forum next week ..i'm g@tvol

sorry i just had 2 vent here :)
 
W.r.t. billing, surely they do not start billing me for DSL until I go to the telkom verifyadsl link?

From speaking to them, it doesn't sound like the order is listed as complete yet... but anyhting is possible I suppose when it comes to their incompetence.

I guess now I should phone head office to get them to follow this up. After all, they told me I could have a self-install in the first place. I initiated the order with them.
 
@MrNutz: Vent away... misery loves company :D

I'm gonna see if I can start hassling the nice ou tannies at head office... :p
 
ryan411 said:
I know that there are routers that can run on DSL via ISDN, but this is not one of them, plus I think the telecoms network has to support it (DSL over ISDN I mean).
Click to expand...
Telkom do not support ADSL over ISDN (Annex B as its known).

So if you plug an analog handset straight into the wall jack you should get dialtone. If not, they havent converted you yet (still conected to ISDN port).

Get dialtone 1st, then worry about ADSL.
 
Thanks for the feedback guys. Much appreciated!

Is there any valid reason why I should not be allowed to remove the NTU myself (once they have converted me on the exchange side)? Regulation-wise or technically speaking?

Removing the NTU involves cutting wires since its output is hardwired to the rest of the house (on the input side it plugs into the wall socket). I would then (with the help of a friend) have to do some soldering to complete the circuit. In the process we could probably leave the wiring in a neater state than the technician that installed the ISDN in the first place...
 
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ryan411 said:
Thanks for the feedback guys. Much appreciated!

Is there any valid reason why I should not be allowed to remove the NTU myself (once they have converted me on the exchange side)? Regulation-wise or technical-wise?

Removing the NTU involves cutting wires since its output is hardwired to the rest of the house (on the input side it plugs into the wall socket). I would then (with the help of a friend) have to do some soldering to complete the circuit. In the process we could probably leave the wiring in a neater state than the technician that installed the ISDN in the first place...
Click to expand...
:confused: I don't understand - there should only be detachable RJ11 connectors between wall socket thingy and the ISDN NTU and all other devices attached to the ISDN NTU...

I guess if the Telkodemonopolies techie that installed the ISDN NTU did something different, then it might be best to insist that a techie comes out to remove the ISDN NTU to sort out the mess.
 
@ic: Yes, I guess they did a funny when installing my ISDN.

The telephone cable leads into the main bedroom from outside the premises, then from there into my room and into a RJ11 wall socket. The ISDN NTU then plugs into that via an RJ11 connector.

I think that 1 pair of wires leave the NTU via the same aforementioned cable that leads back to the point of entry (main bedroom) and reconnects with the pre-existing (pre-ISDN) cabling that connects to all the other RJ11 sockets in the house.

I guess that this cable I talk about consists of 2 pairs of wires with 1 pair for the in-part of the circuit and the other for the out-part of the circuit?

I suppose the techies should have attached an RJ11 jack to the end of the wires that lead out of the room, but I think they didn’t bother because of the little bit of extra effort involved…

I think it should be pretty simple to take the NTU out of the equation. My mate who is going to help me is pretty good with this kind of thing, plus I think I have a good understanding of how it all fits together (in theory at least :p).
 
Just to give guys who might read this some feedback.

I went from ISDN to ADSL, a technician does have to come out to your premise, and will physically remove the ISDN box and he will have to make changes to your lines at the premises.

Thus the self install option does not necessarily apply in such a case. Even if you choose to have the ISDN canceled on a separate order from your ADSL self install order, you will still be dependant on a techie coming out and doing the work.
 
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