anyone know the cost of Dslam??

rite just waiting apon email from Alliance Datacom for there prices on there dslam..But the market leader in dslam is alcatel.Then u can gather how much telkom had 2 spend..I rate that R1billion investment for the the roll-out of adsl inclueds the cost of the current already paid existing telephone network.

Anyone know what dslam telkom use??and what the price is.?

I wouldn't be surprised if they were using Marconi DSLAM's. Might be tough to get pricing on a DSLAM, I would imagine that the price depended on the quantity of them.

While many DSLAMs are required in an ADSL network, the are relatively inexpensive compared to some of the other kit required (tho in fewer numbers).

You need ATM switches to link all the DSLAMs together and tunnel termination routers to terminate the customer's PPPoE sessions.

Not sure what ATM switches Telkom use (maybe Cisco LightStream or NewBridge) but I'm pretty sure they use Cisco ESR 10000 routers for PPPoE termination.

While ATM switches and routers mentioned above are VERY expensive, I'm sure their costs are easily covered by the profits Telkom are making.

The ATM switches are Newbridge. The Routers are Cisco ESR's which replaced the older 7500 series.

Thing is the ATM kit has been in place for years (idling/underutilised, as no one was prepared to pay for the high costs of ATM) and not much expansion is required except maybe for some bandwidth.

The DSLAMs are Marconi & Alcatel. They connect back to the ATM kit via 2Mb/s circuits in most cases.

Its easy to understand why Telkoms network is so expensive. DSLAM(ATM int)-->ATM Switches-->IPNet-->SDH network-->Fiber. The SDH & ATM gear is very expensive. Thing is you could build a 100% IP network only, DSLAM(Ethernet int)-->IPNet-->Fiber, this will save a lot of cost and less levels of management & maintenance to worry about which will further reduce costs. Other Telcos out there are doing it...

ponder, you should send Telkom an email cos they're clearly reading the manual upside down

Do I understand this correctly: Telkom has constructed an extremely expensive network, and requires us, the users, to pay for their blunder?

ponder said:

The ATM switches are Newbridge. The Routers are Cisco ESR's which replaced the older 7500 series.

Thing is the ATM kit has been in place for years (idling/underutilised, as no one was prepared to pay for the high costs of ATM) and not much expansion is required except maybe for some bandwidth.

The DSLAMs are Marconi & Alcatel. They connect back to the ATM kit via 2Mb/s circuits in most cases.

Its easy to understand why Telkoms network is so expensive. DSLAM(ATM int)-->ATM Switches-->IPNet-->SDH network-->Fiber. The SDH & ATM gear is very expensive. Thing is you could build a 100% IP network only, DSLAM(Ethernet int)-->IPNet-->Fiber, this will save a lot of cost and less levels of management & maintenance to worry about which will further reduce costs. Other Telcos out there are doing it...

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Telkom uses Marconi DSLAMS

http://www.marconi.com/Home/press_o...Marconi and Telkom Take Broadband to the Home

ponder, you should send Telkom an email cos they're clearly reading the manual upside down

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It's basically old school thinking that is their problem but it will change in future.

Do I understand this correctly: Telkom has constructed an extremely expensive network, and requires us, the users, to pay for their blunder?

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Yes, but also very stable & I would not really call it a blunder, SDH in my book is still more of a carrier class technology than IP routing etc. To my knowledge no IP technology will recover from a failure as fast as SDH but at the same time the gap is closing as IP routing/switching matures. Keep in mind that they started rolling out the SDH transmission network about +/- 8yrs ago.

The Telkom guys have actually visited a telco in Italy(if I'm not mistaken) that is entirely based on IP technology.

Keep in mind they paid big $$$ for the SDH technology and they have to sweat the assets. Their long term goal is to go the IP route but I dont see it happening like tomorrow.

When the SNO comes online I believe they will do things differently as it is easier when you design/rollout from scratch but then again they will probably leverage the existing Transnet infrastructure or whoever the partner is.

Telkom uses Marconi DSLAMS

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Yes they do but that was not the only brand in the network, I do not know whether they have completely removed the other kit.

ponder said:

The ATM switches are Newbridge. ... The SDH & ATM gear is very expensive

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If Telkom are still using the Newbridge kit, even with upgrades, it must be paid off a long time ago ... to my recollection the core was put in 6 years ago ... same goes for much of SDH.

Bottom line is they're rippin' us bad.

A DSLAM costs telkom around USD$ 55 per port. plus the chasis which would probally add another USD$ 10 to the price.

Now you have to also put router in and bandwidth management in so they can **** us

magneto said:

I rate that R1billion investment for the the roll-out of adsl inclueds the cost of the current already paid existing telephone network.

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You'd be wrong, think fibre lines, ATM network expansions, MPLS (being the planned investment) lots of servers, lots of routers (think Cisco 1X000) and go look up the costs on such equipment.

I've held fibre GBICS that cost more than your car.

Ngn

So is this Next Generation Network that they sometimes refer to a planned rollout of an end-to-end IP network like the Italian example? If so, what are their timeframes?

You guys are *nearly* spot on - except IP-DSLAM is actually way more potent (more ports at way lesser cost). In fact, there are IP-DSLAMS out there with up to 384 ports where the price is negotiable around $US10 - $US20 per port - there are Alcatel ones too. Marconi are renowned for massive markups - they barely touch anything themselves in terms of dev and their support to Telkom is terrible. In terms of redundency - the routers and switches used with IP-DSLAMS (You do get some that may act as an ATM Gateway btw) are incredible, they follow the same rules as IP over excellent routers - the biggest benefit obviously is the need for fewer physical connections directly into the backbone - routers can take care of that. Going IP in the long run will bring down maintenance costs immensely - especially considering there are more IP capable engineers than ATM specialist engineers in the world. Oh yeah, not to mention the little fact that every DSLAM manufacturer out there is going IP.

This is the problem: Telkoms ATM is ageing, and will continue to age, which means continual upgrading and maintenance is required. It's still however cheaper (and Telscum love saving money for their shareholders) to maintain the existing ATM at R300 Million+ annually (this is what they claim it costs to maintain the main switched ATM backbone and local loops in SA) than spending R14 billion on setting up an IP only net. Especially when the current one is comfortably being paid for by Telkom subscribers. Also, Telkom spend a butload of money on engineers to maintain these networks, and they tend to be highly specialised. Cisco equipment ain't cheap, and Telkom absolutely love being Gold Level 3 MS partners. They'd rather sack their normal staff and keep these guys buttered than trying to get local skills for these tasks.

You guys are *nearly* spot on - except IP-DSLAM is actually way more potent (more ports at way lesser cost).

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Thats what I meant, I associate IP & Ethernet with each other which is not always correct but cheap . You also get IPoverATM but that is still frigging expensive compared to ethernet physical media.

Also, Telkom spend a butload of money on engineers to maintain these networks, and they tend to be highly specialised. Cisco equipment ain't cheap, and Telkom absolutely love being Gold Level 3 MS partners. They'd rather sack their normal staff and keep these guys buttered than trying to get local skills for these tasks.

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Yes they are highly specialised but required imho, have seen the tier0/1 guys troubleshoot & it is scary, they need their CCNP&CCIE staff. These engineers salaries are a drop in the bucket compared to some other staff. Pity most of the guys in the regions left when they got offered packages as you need customer facing staff with the skills that instills confidence in the customers.
Cisco kit is expensive but they arent the world leaders for nothing. Dont worry, Telkom does not pay normal retail prices for their kit, their discounts are huge and they actually do pass these on to their clients when they resell kit.

cheers