Extra panels or Solar Geyser?

[SauRoNZA]

Jesus Christ, must we now argue about standing heat loss.

You know what I mean. A geyser is on more of the day than a gas geyser would be.

Example from the page for the Kwikot Superline 400 DUAL 200L

• The polyurethane insulation between the inner cylinder and the outer galvanised casement is 128% thicker, resulting in the hourly standing heat loss decreasing from 108 watts per hour to 50 watts per hour.

50 watts per hour on average, every hour, of every day.

Some may colloquially call this..."on all day".

Wasn’t referring to standing loss at all, just the fact that the disparity isn’t as massive as one would think because an electric geyser only heats as it needs to as well.

 

[SauRoNZA]

What inconvenience can you mention. When I go overseas and use it for showering for example, it's automatically activated by the movement of water and the water is heated very quickly.
Maybe we have different systems? Not like mine is new though. It's quite old IIRC.


You're going to have to explain by what you mean by inconsistency. Like what for example?

The inconvenience of needing to swop gas bottles and make arrangements for them etc.

It’s constantly up and down in temperature and doesn’t stay consistent so you keep needing to adapt to it until you find a spot that works then it lasts maybe five minutes before you need to adjust it again.

My electric geyser shower I know exactly how to set the mixer tap and I do it once and open it and close it when I’m done.

Cooking isn’t much different, it’s an eternal battle to find what works and then it also ****s up all your cookware burning up the sides.

No thanks, gas can get ****ed.

 

[makemydayplz]

I currently run a Hybrid solar system with an 8Kw Inverter, 3 x 5Kwh Batteries and 16 x 455W panels.
This system is just not enough for my household. Currently, I am switching the 2x geysers on for only 2 hrs per day which gives enough hot water.
I am probably 10 units short per day on average, taking into account that we get some cloudy days.
I was wondering what would be more beneficial between going to two Solar geysers for the house and flat, or if I should add more panels?
If so, how many panels would give me the same result as the two solar geysers in trying to gain that 10 units per day?
I am trying to establish which route will make more financial sense?

Consider a heat pump for your geyser cos its a biggest electricity saver

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

Consider a heat pump for your geyser cos its a biggest electricity saver

R15k vs adjusting settings for free. Heat pump is cool when you're struggling with peak loads on your inverter...

 

[newby_investor]

Why use the generator to charge the batteries?

Perhaps we're talking about different use-cases, but for those edge cases where you've had very cloudy days and a substation blow-out or something. But it depends. Alternatively, if you're trying to get off-grid then the R900k that MyBB quotes for large panels and batteries and inverters etc, it's much simpler to just use a gen to top up the batteries for the edge cases.

I wouldn't want to just run a gen all the time. Top up the batteries when needed, switch it off. The sun will come out again.

 

[Paul_S]

The inconvenience of needing to swop gas bottles and make arrangements for them etc.

It’s constantly up and down in temperature and doesn’t stay consistent so you keep needing to adapt to it until you find a spot that works then it lasts maybe five minutes before you need to adjust it again.

My electric geyser shower I know exactly how to set the mixer tap and I do it once and open it and close it when I’m done.

That's why they make constant temperature gas geysers. You set the temperature using an LCD and it maintains that temperature regardless of the flow rate.

 

[6174]

In my opinion, it is foolish to utilize solar power to drive any heating element as it will drain the system and cycle your batteries even faster than they would otherwise cycle.

I am factually investing in solar vacuum tubes. Their value proposition is two-fold. Firstly, even if they only work 50% of the time, I will save a ton of money. My current geyser consumes about 10 to 12 units of power a day. It makes up for 80% of my power bill each month. Secondly, I have a 50% chance of having hot water during load shedding.

I am also considering having a gas water heater installed. This also has two value propositions. First, it can function without any need for solar radiation thus it will function on overcast days and at night. Secondly, it can work independently.

Both the vacuum tubes and gas water heater will cost less than one-tenth then what a solar system will cost. My gas stove has already proven itself invaluable and very cost-effective as I only spend R300 on gas for it each month. This allows me to cook food for a family of 4 all of us are adults on a day-to-day base.

It also allows me to boil water for coffee, and this alone saves a ton of money as an electric kettle can be very taxing on our power bill. Factually I saved over R150 per month on my power bill just on the electric kettle alone. That is half of my gas costs. That is an incredible saving for something so small.

Once Eskom implements its 18.65% it will have a massive impact on our livelihood, as I am on the lower end of the income scale this will have a fundamental and profound impact on how we live our lives.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Perhaps we're talking about different use-cases, but for those edge cases where you've had very cloudy days and a substation blow-out or something. But it depends. Alternatively, if you're trying to get off-grid then the R900k that MyBB quotes for large panels and batteries and inverters etc, it's much simpler to just use a gen to top up the batteries for the edge cases.

I wouldn't want to just run a gen all the time. Top up the batteries when needed, switch it off. The sun will come out again.

My point is Eskom will be there 99% of the time to do the work, no need for a generator unless it’s literally a 1/365 scenario.

 

[SauRoNZA]

That's why they make constant temperature gas geysers. You set the temperature using an LCD and it maintains that temperature regardless of the flow rate.

Well I am yet to ever experience this and I’ve done plenty of gas geysers.

Point still stands around the unnecessary inconvenience and it still sucks for cooking.

 

[r00igev@@r]

Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Use a solar geyer or gas water heater for your shower.

 

[SauRoNZA]

In my opinion, it is foolish to utilize solar power to drive any heating element as it will drain the system and cycle your batteries even faster than they would otherwise cycle.

I am factually investing in solar vacuum tubes. Their value proposition is two-fold. Firstly, even if they only work 50% of the time, I will save a ton of money. My current geyser consumes about 10 to 12 units of power a day. It makes up for 80% of my power bill each month. Secondly, I have a 50% chance of having hot water during load shedding.

I am also considering having a gas water heater installed. This also has two value propositions. First, it can function without any need for solar radiation thus it will function on overcast days and at night. Secondly, it can work independently.

Both the vacuum tubes and gas water heater will cost less than one-tenth then what a solar system will cost. My gas stove has already proven itself invaluable and very cost-effective as I only spend R300 on gas for it each month. This allows me to cook food for a family of 4 all of us are adults on a day-to-day base.

It also allows me to boil water for coffee, and this alone saves a ton of money as an electric kettle can be very taxing on our power bill. Factually I saved over R150 per month on my power bill just on the electric kettle alone. That is half of my gas costs. That is an incredible saving for something so small.

Once Eskom implements its 18.65% it will have a massive impact on our livelihood, as I am on the lower end of the income scale this will have a fundamental and profound impact on how we live our lives.

You aren’t using the batteries to run your geyser.

There’s nothing to drain.

Do you possibly have a vested interest in these links? It sure seems like an ad to me…

You’d do far bette taking that money and adding more Solar panels to your system and not having to deal with any plumbing or maintenance drama.

My 250L geyser uses all of 5kWh in summer with a family of 4.

And to your last point, this discussion is about people who have already gone entirely solar and become near as self-sustainable.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Use a solar geyer or gas water heater for your shower.

It’s a case of having the basket to start with, no need to buy other baskets and complicate things by spending more money and adding more components and complexity when the one thing you already have can do all the work with a little bit of logic and decent configuration.

 

[r00igev@@r]

It’s a case of having the basket to start with, no need to buy other baskets and complicate things by spending more money and adding more components and complexity when the one thing you already have can do all the work with a little bit of logic and decent configuration.

Yes, a spare tyre in a car complicates things. Best we get rid of those as well.

 

[Speedster]

In my opinion, it is foolish to utilize solar power to drive any heating element as it will drain the system and cycle your batteries even faster than they would otherwise cycle.

I am factually investing in solar vacuum tubes. Their value proposition is two-fold. Firstly, even if they only work 50% of the time, I will save a ton of money. My current geyser consumes about 10 to 12 units of power a day. It makes up for 80% of my power bill each month. Secondly, I have a 50% chance of having hot water during load shedding.

I am also considering having a gas water heater installed. This also has two value propositions. First, it can function without any need for solar radiation thus it will function on overcast days and at night. Secondly, it can work independently.

Both the vacuum tubes and gas water heater will cost less than one-tenth then what a solar system will cost. My gas stove has already proven itself invaluable and very cost-effective as I only spend R300 on gas for it each month. This allows me to cook food for a family of 4 all of us are adults on a day-to-day base.

It also allows me to boil water for coffee, and this alone saves a ton of money as an electric kettle can be very taxing on our power bill. Factually I saved over R150 per month on my power bill just on the electric kettle alone. That is half of my gas costs. That is an incredible saving for something so small.

Once Eskom implements its 18.65% it will have a massive impact on our livelihood, as I am on the lower end of the income scale this will have a fundamental and profound impact on how we live our lives.

Simple arithmetic says otherwise.

Solar geyser: approx R30k
Solar panels: approx 4kWp for R30k (not even factoring in the 25% rebate)

4kWp gives you upwards of 20kWh per day.

If you put the geyser on a timer it'll have zero effect on battery usage/cycles.

 

[RonSwanson]

In my opinion, it is foolish to utilize solar power to drive any heating element as it will drain the system and cycle your batteries even faster than they would otherwise cycle.

I am factually investing in solar vacuum tubes. Their value proposition is two-fold. Firstly, even if they only work 50% of the time, I will save a ton of money. My current geyser consumes about 10 to 12 units of power a day. It makes up for 80% of my power bill each month. Secondly, I have a 50% chance of having hot water during load shedding.

I am also considering having a gas water heater installed. This also has two value propositions. First, it can function without any need for solar radiation thus it will function on overcast days and at night. Secondly, it can work independently.

Both the vacuum tubes and gas water heater will cost less than one-tenth then what a solar system will cost. My gas stove has already proven itself invaluable and very cost-effective as I only spend R300 on gas for it each month. This allows me to cook food for a family of 4 all of us are adults on a day-to-day base.

It also allows me to boil water for coffee, and this alone saves a ton of money as an electric kettle can be very taxing on our power bill. Factually I saved over R150 per month on my power bill just on the electric kettle alone. That is half of my gas costs. That is an incredible saving for something so small.

Once Eskom implements its 18.65% it will have a massive impact on our livelihood, as I am on the lower end of the income scale this will have a fundamental and profound impact on how we live our lives.

You talk a lot of kak.

 

[6174]

Simple arithmetic says otherwise.

Solar geyser: approx R30k
Solar panels: approx 4kWp for R30k (not even factoring in the 25% rebate)

4kWp gives you upwards of 20kWh per day.

If you put the geyser on a timer it'll have zero effect on battery usage/cycles.

Are we on the same planet? I do not have close to R30k to spend on a solar geyser. But this is typical snake oil, my current geyser can accept a modification. This modification will cost about R12k and that includes the installation and COC so that the insurance will accept it. Once installed I will include a scan. This will happen hopefully before or after April.

Yes, you do get an R30k solar geyser but they are not the only option on the market so please don't pretend they are. You push really hard for the most expensive options and I suspect it is because you are probably financially incentivized. Please stop pretending that solar is the only solution. It is not, it is expensive as hell and shouldn't be the only answer to every question. Bully sales reflect badly on any company so perhaps look at the alternatives before you attack every single person for trying to do what makes financial sense.

 

[6174]

You talk a lot of kak.

Do you live in my house? No. Do you know what I have running in my house? No. So who are you to make any such hateful, victimizing statement? You don't even know what food I cook and consume and how long it takes to cook. You know nothing about me or my situation. So don't assume you do.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

Are we on the same planet? I do not have close to R30k to spend on a solar geyser. But this is typical snake oil, my current geyser can accept a modification. This modification will cost about R12k and that includes the installation and COC so that the insurance will accept it. Once installed I will include a scan. This will happen hopefully before or after April.

Yes, you do get an R30k solar geyser but they are not the only option on the market so please don't pretend they are. You push really hard for the most expensive options and I suspect it is because you are probably financially incentivized. Please stop pretending that solar is the only solution. It is not, it is expensive as hell and shouldn't be the only answer to every question. Bully sales reflect badly on any company so perhaps look at the alternatives before you attack every single person for trying to do what makes financial sense.

He's taking about adding more panels to an existing solar system. Literally nobody with any common sense is saying that you should replace a geyser if you have a decent solar system in place...

 

[RonSwanson]

Do you live in my house? No. Do you know what I have running in my house? No. So who are you to make any such hateful, victimizing statement? You don't even know what food I cook and consume and how long it takes to cook. You know nothing about me or my situation. So don't assume you do.

I don't have to do all that, thank goodness. All I have to do is look at your conclusions, which are kak.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Yes, a spare tyre in a car complicates things. Best we get rid of those as well.

Terrible example…considering that’s exactly what we’ve been doing with cars the last few years.