Tshwane allowing residents to sell electricity back to the grid

The muni can pump water back into their dam or install huge batteries in shipping containers at their substations and store the energy that gets pumped in during the day instead of buying anything. Then they use that instead of buying from eskom later on in the evening. But no, we must destroy the spinning meter, they are evil.

We have had loadshitting issues since 2007. If CoCT officials couldn't use the opportunity when going through the effort of changing everyones meters to futureproof ones then there is no hope for the future. Just dumb politicians controlling our lives.
It's almost as though you haven't read what I wrote.

Load shedding started in 2007 but there were very big gaps. It was a much smaller problem than people not paying their electricity bills and going through drama when there's disconnections and reconnections and all that sort of thing. The city's drive to switch to prepaid meters was more or less complete in 2014 when I moved here, there were very few stragglers still. Just about no one had solar. We weren't really thinking about load shedding much at that stage.

The load shedding **** really started hitting the fan in 2019, and it got to the current non-stop levels only in September last year or so. (I know it feels a lot longer.) By this stage, the spinning disc meters are LONG GONE. It's not as though the DA are still maliciously getting rid of them.

Really the worst thing you can accuse them of is not having a crystal ball and predicting the future, even if for the sake of the argument we agree that just letting a spinning disc meter run backwards was a workable solution (which it isn't, but I won't make a longer post since people don't seem to like reading more than a few paragraphs around here).
 
On the more general topic of spinning disc meters running backwards.

Eskom charges municipalities something like 70-80c per kWh, while municipalities charge their customers around R2.50 to R3.50. Yes, the city is making quite a bit of "profit" on the electricity. They use that to fund a lot of their other operations, including provision of electricity to the indigent population who qualifies for free basic services.

If you simply run your meter backwards during the day and forwards at night when there's no sun, then effectively the city is buying electricity from you at the same rate that it sells to you, making it much much more expensive than Eskom or whatever other sources. So there's no sense in saying "The muni can <...> store the energy that gets pumped in during the day instead of buying anything" because running the meter backwards effectively IS buying expensive electricity to store. So as much as they need to provide an economic incentive for the property owner, there needs to be an economic incentive for the municipality as well, otherwise what's the point? They also need budget to operate.

There are plenty of valid criticisms that you can throw at the DA in this case. Here's some that you can use, free of charge:
- The R11k meter is ridiculously expensive. No ways that a consumer at home would be interested in that kind of outlay. We've seen examples of cheap-as-chips meters but I suspect there may need to be at least some security involved. Personally I'd be willing to pay up to R2k for such a device, not R11k.
- The monthly fees associated further dissuade any consumer from making use of the opportunity because there's basically no profit incentive after all. Unless the fee is nominal, say R10 or something, I'd say the uptake is going to be very low and they're shooting themselves in the foot.
- This drive towards making people register their solar arrays is making people lose trust in the municipality. They can't seem to relinquish centralised control of stuff. Maybe the motivation behind it is good and valid but it hasn't been properly communicated so I am skeptical of whether they've actually thought things through.

Getting hung up on spinning disc meters that are for the most part gone long ago is IMO just silly. I'm not the police, if there's someone with solar that still has a spinning disc meter and is successfully pushing back, power to you. I'm just not terribly surprised that the municipality wouldn't be happy with that.
 
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There are plenty of valid criticisms that you can throw at the DA in this case. Here's some that you can use, free of charge:
- The R11k meter is ridiculously expensive. No ways that a consumer at home would be interested in that kind of outlay. We've seen examples of cheap-as-chips meters but I suspect there may need to be at least some security involved. Personally I'd be willing to pay up to R2k for such a device, not R11k.
- The monthly fees associated further dissuade any consumer from making use of the opportunity because there's basically no profit incentive after all. Unless the fee is nominal, say R10 or something, I'd say the uptake is going to be very low and they're shooting themselves in the foot.
- This drive towards making people register their solar arrays is making people lose trust in the municipality. They can't seem to relinquish centralised control of stuff. Maybe the motivation behind it is good and valid but it hasn't been properly communicated so I am skeptical of whether they've actually thought things through.

Getting hung up on spinning disc meters that are for the most part gone long ago is IMO just silly. I'm not the police, if there's someone with solar that still has a spinning disc meter and is successfully pushing back, power to you. I'm just not terribly surprised that the municipality wouldn't be happy with that.
Just putting your last paragraphs here since people don't read that far.



;)
 
Still not worth it due to size limits. I go into the viabilty for residential here - https://goingsolar.co.za/2023/03/10/cape-town-sseg-2023-feedback-to-grid-not-so-fast/
Nice write-up. This is exactly the kind of criticism which I was arguing is valid. (Possibly in another thread.)

I would remove the “Home user” charge though since most of us are on it anyway, if you have an electricity connection. It shifts the calculations somewhat. Not orders of magnitude, but somewhat. And if they can bring down the up-front cost it becomes at least not offensive to those charitable souls trying to do their bit for the country.

The meter reading fee still smarts though. I *suspect* (though I haven’t looked into this) that this is less a CoCT fee than one by whatever private entity won the contract to supply these meters because they have a captive audience. That might fall away or reduce if they can actually find a cheaper meter as they said they are looking for.
 
Nice write-up. This is exactly the kind of criticism which I was arguing is valid. (Possibly in another thread.)

I would remove the “Home user” charge though since most of us are on it anyway, if you have an electricity connection. It shifts the calculations somewhat. Not orders of magnitude, but somewhat. And if they can bring down the up-front cost it becomes at least not offensive to those charitable souls trying to do their bit for the country.

The meter reading fee still smarts though. I *suspect* (though I haven’t looked into this) that this is less a CoCT fee than one by whatever private entity won the contract to supply these meters because they have a captive audience. That might fall away or reduce if they can actually find a cheaper meter as they said they are looking for.
I would argue that their claim - you can get money, is utterly bogus.
With or without the meter charge.

Realistically given system size feedback limitations its going to be virtually impossible to break a credit, with or without that charge, and when their 25c bonus falls away, regularly impossible ;)

Again, their claims are more greenwashing than anything, and not much different to previous years where you could get credited for use, but not make a "profit".

They've basically removed that to look good, as at some point NERSA National Treasury will issue an exemption and sign off to say customers can feedback (eta mid year+-), but its still rigged fairly in CoCT's favour.

That said, I don't know the solution here. Definitely the meter needs to be free - muni's need to have a time of use meter in place according to NERSA, and all muni's are decades late on that.

The 4 quadrant meter can do TOU, so thats really fulfilling one of their own requirements at consumers cost. The reading fee is bullshit, especially when its cheaper to automatically read remotely vs have staff come visit. Doubly so, when they've been replacing spinny disk with Conlog AMI prepay meters in some area's which talk over PLC, but those mysteriously don't have that added fee.

CoCT appears to use SyM2 hardware, but I haven't really had much insight other than grepping PDF's and looking at budget spending.

Overall AMI is a cost benefit to muni's so adding costs at the consumer end is a bit heinous.

Screenshot 2023-03-11 at 09.56.09.png

Excellent research here on SA implementations - http://www.africancityenergy.org/uploads/resource_127.pdf

Ideally increased feeding limits, and upgrade of backend infrastructure in area's with higher density of solar would make sense. This is realistically going to mean upgrading rich area's, and those will subsidise poorer area's as electricity can be transited to there (assuming cabling not stolen, electricians not murdered, and substations not set on fire, etc etc.)

This will of course lead to complaints that the have's are getting upgrades, and its unfair. C'est la vie though.

Ultimately solar is going to benefit the consumer, vs the muni, we know it, they know it, and they're fighting it tooth and claw.
Neither party are enemies though, and a more balanced approach would be better. This isn't it though.
 
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