SEACOM now live on Equiano cable

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Seacom now live on Equiano cable | Seacom

We provide customers with access to the internet via Seacom's global high-speed data network. Seacom leverages cloud technology to equip small to medium...

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The real question becomes, which ISP's will go live on this cable? I could use 110ms from S.A to EU.

 

[cavedog]

I could use 110ms from S.A to EU.

Not going to happen.

 

[websquadza]

Find the article here:

Seacom now live on Equiano cable | Seacom

We provide customers with access to the internet via Seacom's global high-speed data network. Seacom leverages cloud technology to equip small to medium...

seacom.co.za

The real question becomes, which ISP's will go live on this cable? I could use 110ms from S.A to EU.

Remember, this 110ms is CLS (cable landing station) (Melkbos, CPT) to CLS (Lisbon, Portugal).

Besides the great PR Equiano is whipping up, there is no real major latency advantage once you factor in Rondebosch <> Melkbos, Melkbox <> Lisbon and Lisbon <> London/Frankfurt paths - we can't beat the physics of distance. Express routes (if these are used on the cable system) might shave a few ms at most, that's all.

Seacom will just integrate the new path into their existing routing, and likely use the additional cheaper capacity for growth. They already use WACS, so just think of this as an additional path.

Big content networks / Gaming networks generally peer at major IXs like LINX/DE-CIX, which means the added latency between the CLS and networks (both the fibre network you're on, and the servers on the other end) is a factor we need to consider.

 

[cavedog]

Remember, this 110ms is CLS (cable landing station) (Melkbos, CPT) to CLS (Lisbon, Portugal).

Besides the great PR Equiano is whipping up, there is no real major latency advantage once you factor in Rondebosch <> Melkbos, Melkbox <> Lisbon and Lisbon <> London/Frankfurt paths - we can't beat the physics of distance. Express routes (if these are used on the cable system) might shave a few ms at most, that's all.

Seacom will just integrate the new path into their existing routing, and likely use the additional cheaper capacity for growth. They already use WACS, so just think of this as an additional path.

Big content networks / Gaming networks generally peer at major IXs like LINX/DE-CIX, which means the added latency between the CLS and networks (both the fibre network you're on, and the servers on the other end) is a factor we need to consider.

It just doesn't make sense at all for anyone to drop equipment at Equinix Internet Exchange Lisbon to reach 18 networks who are mostly local networks related to fibre and mobile. The bit of traffic is better served from LINX, AMS-IX and DE-CIX via transit providers so even the cable landing in Lisbon doesn't matter because L2 routes will be to London and Amsterdam.

 

[portcullis]

It just doesn't make sense at all for anyone to drop equipment at Equinix Internet Exchange Lisbon to reach 18 networks who are mostly local networks related to fibre and mobile. The bit of traffic is better served from LINX, AMS-IX and DE-CIX via transit providers so even the cable landing in Lisbon doesn't matter because L2 routes will be to London and Amsterdam.

Unless you have a very specific client who's willing to pay a premium for what will, for all intents and purposes be a private circuit.

Another option is to just buy a L2 from AC with a virtual port at the Lisbon IX, but they you're probably going to have to go off the route servers.

We saw this with a test port in Brazil back in the day. The networks overseas offload traffic to you at their closest point, so if the Americans can dump traffic to you in Fortaleza, they will. It means they don't have to carry it over the Atlantic. As soon as Brazil went live our gamer clients started complaining about "rubber banding". We peer bilaterally with network ABC in Johannesburg, but also peer with them via the route server in Fortaleza, London or Frankfurt. We send via the shortest route and they send via their shortest route => asymmetrical routing and unhappy customers. We used BGP communities to try and steer traffic, but the nonsense only stopped when we stopped peering with the route servers off at those exchanges.

 

[cavedog]

Unless you have a very specific client who's willing to pay a premium for what will, for all intents and purposes be a private circuit.

Another option is to just buy a L2 from AC with a virtual port at the Lisbon IX, but they you're probably going to have to go off the route servers.

We saw this with a test port in Brazil back in the day. The networks overseas offload traffic to you at their closest point, so if the Americans can dump traffic to you in Fortaleza, they will. It means they don't have to carry it over the Atlantic. As soon as Brazil went live our gamer clients started complaining about "rubber banding". We peer bilaterally with network ABC in Johannesburg, but also peer with them via the route server in Fortaleza, London or Frankfurt. We send via the shortest route and they send via their shortest route => asymmetrical routing and unhappy customers. We used BGP communities to try and steer traffic, but the nonsense only stopped when we stopped peering with the route servers off at those exchanges.

It's a nightmare and something South Africa struggle the most with if you have direct routes to more than 1 IX in Europe and elsewhere. You can Prepend or play with BGP Communities it doesn't matter those networks send traffic back with the route they want to use. If you have equipment in the IX you can de-peer them but then they hand it to you on the exact same route via a transit provider.

 

[portcullis]

It's a nightmare and something South Africa struggle the most with if you have direct routes to more than 1 IX in Europe and elsewhere. You can Prepend or play with BGP Communities it doesn't matter those networks send traffic back with the route they want to use. If you have equipment in the IX you can de-peer them but then they hand it to you on the exact same route via a transit provider.

Prezaktly!

Now try and explain that to someone trying to stream COD in her underwear.

 

[cavedog]

Prezaktly!

Now try and explain that to someone trying to stream COD in her underwear.

Hahaha. One perfect example is HE. The Australian networks love HE but HE loves using their own routes especially since they deployed in Durban so for Austrialian traffic from Durban they like Durban > France > London > New York> through the US and exit somewhere on the West coast to Australia and it's a horrible route. The best would be Durban to Singapore if you have it or Durban to Singapore via France but not HE they want all the traffic destined for their customers in JHB, CPT or DUR. Even if you de-peer them they will then pick it up via your transit provider who won't de-peer them because it saves them capacity.

 

[CrypticZA]

Prezaktly!

Now try and explain that to someone trying to stream COD in her underwear.

You got my attention in the last 3 words

 

[PBCool]

It just doesn't make sense at all for anyone to drop equipment at Equinix Internet Exchange Lisbon to reach 18 networks who are mostly local networks related to fibre and mobile. The bit of traffic is better served from LINX, AMS-IX and DE-CIX via transit providers so even the cable landing in Lisbon doesn't matter because L2 routes will be to London and Amsterdam.

There is the possibility of small effective latency savings by peering at DE-CIX Madrid, I am not sure what the effective latency would be into France from there.

But it's a whole other leg to manage for a minority gain.

If we turn up Equiano it would be alongside WACs to London, and onward from there.

The major issue with SACS/Brazil was that the latency improvement was basically to a place that speaks a different language and timezone far away from ours.

Portugal might be more inline gaming wise, but then easier to turn up a gaming service for that specifically.

 

[Polymathic]

There is the possibility of small effective latency savings by peering at DE-CIX Madrid, I am not sure what the effective latency would be into France from there.

But it's a whole other leg to manage for a minority gain.

If we turn up Equiano it would be alongside WACs to London, and onward from there.

The major issue with SACS/Brazil was that the latency improvement was basically to a place that speaks a different language and timezone far away from ours.

Portugal might be more inline gaming wise, but then easier to turn up a gaming service for that specifically.

Am I wrong thinking that the best route from Durban to Cape Town in terms of latency is one of the submarine cables?

 

[PBCool]

Am I wrong thinking that the best route from Durban to Cape Town in terms of latency is one of the submarine cables?

Nah, terrestrial currently, which is a Liquid built route called NLD 5/6. It is super unstable, unfortunately.

2 africa might offer an inter regional route on an undersea cable for the first time.

 

[r00igev@@r]

Prezaktly!

Now try and explain that to someone trying to stream COD in her underwear.

COD = Corset of Debbie?

 

[Xtm]

Nah, terrestrial currently, which is a Liquid built route called NLD 5/6. It is super unstable, unfortunately.

So how actually cities connected (jhb to capetown) using terrestrial Liquid built or running fiber optic?

 

[cavedog]

There is the possibility of small effective latency savings by peering at DE-CIX Madrid, I am not sure what the effective latency would be into France from there.

But it's a whole other leg to manage for a minority gain.

If we turn up Equiano it would be alongside WACs to London, and onward from there.

The major issue with SACS/Brazil was that the latency improvement was basically to a place that speaks a different language and timezone far away from ours.

Portugal might be more inline gaming wise, but then easier to turn up a gaming service for that specifically.

To pick up what networks exactly? I'm not a major gamer but the big games aren't in PT. It's England, The Netherlands, Germany, France. Using some public looking glasses from Cogent and HE the latency from Lisbon to Madrid, Paris, Amsterdam and London doesn't look good. 45-50ms

 

[Soul Assassin]

To pick up what networks exactly? I'm not a major gamer but the big games aren't in PT. It's England, The Netherlands, Germany, France. Using some public looking glasses from Cogent and HE the latency from Lisbon to Madrid, Paris, Amsterdam and London doesn't look good. 45-50ms

I can't think of a single game with servers in Portugal or Spain, it wouldn't make sense, any game that has multiple servers the most populated ones are always the more central ones, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Dallas etc

 

[cavedog]

I can't think of a single game with servers in Portugal or Spain, it wouldn't make sense, any game that has multiple servers the most populated ones are always the more central ones, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Dallas etc

Indeed, and if the looking glasses are to believed Lisbon to Madrid is at least 23ms away and France is 45ms away from Lisbon. There goes all the minute gains that were achieved by the cable not to mention the struggle with bgp communities and prepending to influence reverse paths.

The only real benefit this cable can bring is drop transit prices a lot to compete with other cables. Then maybe there can be some advantages like mainly using that cable as primary compared to splits between east and west currently.

 

[CrypticZA]

I can't think of a single game with servers in Portugal or Spain, it wouldn't make sense, any game that has multiple servers the most populated ones are always the more central ones, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Dallas etc

Yea same was thinking long and hard and literally can't think of a single game with servers in those regions.. and so many game developers are going the route of using AWS/Google/Microsoft servers as well

 

[Grieta Thanburg]

Indeed, and if the looking glasses are to believed Lisbon to Madrid is at least 23ms away and France is 45ms away from Lisbon. There goes all the minute gains that were achieved by the cable not to mention the struggle with bgp communities and prepending to influence reverse paths.

The only real benefit this cable can bring is drop transit prices a lot to compete with other cables. Then maybe there can be some advantages like mainly using that cable as primary compared to splits between east and west currently.

As far as I know, the biggest cost is still line rental? Would cheaper international transit make a big difference in price or rather, would cheaper transit just allow for more capacity?

 

[cavedog]

As far as I know, the biggest cost is still line rental? Would cheaper international transit make a big difference in price or rather, would cheaper transit just allow for more capacity?

It will allow more capacity and better routes. If the price looks good, it will make sense to move the East coast traffic to it. Currently because of price there is a split on some ISP's East and North via East Coast cable and South via WACS.