Switching off South Africa's geysers could save up to four stages of load-shedding — Ramokgopa

[Mista_Mobsta]

In a healthy economy, a demand is met by supply at an acceptable cost, and a trade is completed. If there is no demand, then the economic benefit of the item is zero. If the demand is high and supply is low, then this is managed by the law of supply and demand and the price must go up. This is economics 101.

For the government to reduce demand, all they need to do, is escalate the price, but this only works in a competitive market, otherwise, its just a fancy way to "pay more tax". So if the minister of electricity, Eskom and the ANC want to reduce demand, the correct economic answer is not to ask people to turn off geysers, the answer is to raise the price of electricity and force people to turn off geysers or "pay more tax".

This will ultimately lead to the demise of the economy and the demise of the ANC simultaneously, as the knock to average joe and poor joe's cost of living, becomes essentially unbearable. The only fix to this broken relationship, is to deregulate and privatise, get out of the power production game and allow capitalism to provide, which we all know the ANC will not do, because that doesnt win commie votes.

The ANC has no more cards while trying to "eat" as much as they can before the game is up. This "do us a favour and turn off your geyser" is just a weak attempt at acting like they have a plan.

100%

People are worried that the privatisation, by allowing competition to flourish, of Eskom will lead to higher electricity costs. The funny thing is that the cost of electricity will likely drop as you have technological advances + removal of entrance barriers that help to decrease the cost per unit generated. Imagine how many residential & business clients would invest in electricity generation if the regulations are modified to force muni's to pay competitive rates to those that generate based on a time-of-day tariff structure?

 

[jetlee]

100%

People are worried that the privatisation, by allowing competition to flourish, of Eskom will lead to higher electricity costs. The funny thing is that the cost of electricity will likely drop as you have technological advances + removal of entrance barriers that help to decrease the cost per unit generated. Imagine how many residential & business clients would invest in electricity generation if the regulations are modified to force muni's to pay competitive rates to those that generate based on a time-of-day tariff structure?

Yip, Telkom is a perfect example .. when we only had SAT3 .. our broadband was seriously expensive, more competition .. and now look .. privatisation has (shock face) worked ..

 

[porchrat]

100%

People are worried that the privatisation, by allowing competition to flourish, of Eskom will lead to higher electricity costs. The funny thing is that the cost of electricity will likely drop as you have technological advances + removal of entrance barriers that help to decrease the cost per unit generated. Imagine how many residential & business clients would invest in electricity generation if the regulations are modified to force muni's to pay competitive rates to those that generate based on a time-of-day tariff structure?

Not to mention private companies are less likely to develop the massive inefficiencies Eskom has through corruption and the bloated workforce, then demand consistent above inflation increases to support those inefficiencies.

Companies that do this sort of thing will just lose.

The less this useless government has to do with stuff that actually makes the country function and grow the better.

 

[newby_investor]

I don't think that privatisation by itself is a panacea. For a long time we had just MTN and Vodacom for instance, completely private, and our cellphone service was expensive and bad compared with the rest of the world. There are a number of factors at play.

It's also a bad idea to radically change things quickly, it will upset stability. We're in a system where things have worked (more or less worked anyway) in a certain way for decades, so suddenly switching them to a completely different ownership model is going to be a wild ride before everything gets figured out.

Best way is to make incremental changes in the right direction IMO.

 

[porchrat]

I don't think that privatisation by itself is a panacea. For a long time we had just MTN and Vodacom for instance, completely private, and our cellphone service was expensive and bad compared with the rest of the world. There are a number of factors at play.

It's also a bad idea to radically change things quickly, it will upset stability. We're in a system where things have worked (more or less worked anyway) in a certain way for decades, so suddenly switching them to a completely different ownership model is going to be a wild ride before everything gets figured out.

Best way is to make incremental changes in the right direction IMO.

You're confusing privatisation with an effective monopoly or oligopoly with little to no oversight.

 

[BeerIsNotGood...]

OMG PVTIZATION BAD/GOOD

You retards (<-BAD Crowd) do realize that there is another option right??

Remember provincial and municipalities?

Pepper Farm remembers too...

 

[newby_investor]

You're confusing privatisation with an effective monopoly or oligopoly with little to no oversight.

Nope, these things often go together.

I can very easily foresee “private” companies winning licences to be electricity suppliers or distributors and it being a similar shitshow in the end to what we currently see.

Home Affairs contracts out visa applications to a private company for instance, VFS Global, which is almost as awful as home affairs itself.

I am not anti-privatisation as such, but just understand that it can be done just as badly. IMO the best approach is to tweak the system slowly to get rid of pain points. Any fast transition to a new way of doing things is going to have unintended consequences.

 

[Jam Sandwich]

not to mention how much electricity can be saved by switching off the fn streetlights during the day.
everywhere we go, 1000s of streetlights burning in the sunlight.
i know there is mention why it needs to be on, but that is really just bad management

The argument is that the cables cant be stolen but Ive seen members of our local Association of Nyope Boys with plastic bags wrapped around their hands as they cut the cable....

 

[TheMightyQuin]

not to mention how much electricity can be saved by switching off the fn streetlights during the day.
everywhere we go, 1000s of streetlights burning in the sunlight.
i know there is mention why it needs to be on, but that is really just bad management

Why? Or do you think that electricity can be "saved for later" ?

Streetlights that are on during the day have zero impact on loadshedding.

 

[Oldfut]

Nope, these things often go together.

I can very easily foresee “private” companies winning licences to be electricity suppliers or distributors and it being a similar shitshow in the end to what we currently see.

Home Affairs contracts out visa applications to a private company for instance, VFS Global, which is almost as awful as home affairs itself.

I am not anti-privatisation as such, but just understand that it can be done just as badly. IMO the best approach is to tweak the system slowly to get rid of pain points. Any fast transition to a new way of doing things is going to have unintended consequences.

Could be newby BUT only if planned by government by only issuing a few "licences" and allowing an imbalance. The US did better when it enforced the Bell breakup.

I would say the only way power can be provided adequately in SA is to privatise without any restriction except, no monopolies and compliance with environmental regulations. All the rest out the window, compulsory access to the national grid, no AA or BEE requirements starting at the coal mines.

Never happen of course, the trough is way too lucrative for the ANC and its fellow travellers.

 

[nazmo]

"As shown in Figure 1, data derived from the South African Energy Balances [3], in 2014, the residential sector in South Africa was responsible for 23 percent of total electricity consumption"

"average household, the geyser accounts for around 40% to 60% of the total electricity used in a month."

so lets take 50% of household consumption is geyser. that means 50% of 23 is 11.5% total grid saving.

does 11.5% equate to 4 stages? or is he talking k@k

 

[wingnut771]

"As shown in Figure 1, data derived from the South African Energy Balances [3], in 2014, the residential sector in South Africa was responsible for 23 percent of total electricity consumption"

"average household, the geyser accounts for around 40% to 60% of the total electricity used in a month."

so lets take 50% of household consumption is geyser. that means 50% of 23 is 11.5% total grid saving.

does 11.5% equate to 4 stages? or is he talking k@k

If his lips are moving he’s talking kak.

 

[porchrat]

Nope, these things often go together.

They don't have to. Hence why you're a little confused.

I can very easily foresee “private” companies winning licences to be electricity suppliers or distributors and it being a similar shitshow in the end to what we currently see.

High quality coal being replaced with rocks and nobody caring?

Crippled supply because of rampant corruption?

R100 million worth of diesel stolen monthly for years?

R200 000 for a broom?

Triple the number of employees required?

Not in the private sector and especially not when that private sector is being paid by the kWh supplied. (no more government bailouts baby)

Home Affairs contracts out visa applications to a private company for instance, VFS Global, which is almost as awful as home affairs itself.

That's a contract that likely doesn't revolve around how many VISAs are issued. When you're being paid by your customers directly based on how much electricity you generate you either generate electricity to sell or you go out of business and your competitor that does generate that electricity eats you.

I am not anti-privatisation as such, but just understand that it can be done just as badly. IMO the best approach is to tweak the system slowly to get rid of pain points. Any fast transition to a new way of doing things is going to have unintended consequences.

I doubt there's much room for doing it worse than Eskom is currently doing it.

 

[porchrat]

OMG PVTIZATION BAD/GOOD

You retards (<-BAD Crowd) do realize that there is another option right??

Remember provincial and municipalities?

Pepper Farm remembers too...

The same municipalities that are millions, or even billions in debt to Eskom with other infrastructure that's already collapsing with no sign of effective maintenance on the horizon?

Same goes for most provinces?

Sure. Make them responsible for generating electricity. That will definitely work. I mean it didn't work for water, roads or any other services but electricity is definitely different somehow.

Don't get me wrong I'm in the Western Cape. I'll be fine with that approach. The rest of the country not so much.

 

[Rouxenator]

They already rolled out ACDs back in 2011 and currently it is only used to switch the geysers back on systematically after load shedding ends to avoid a massive dip.

That said, also around that time eksdom had a rebate on solar geysers and I got one, so for more than half the year my geyser is off anyway.

 

[newby_investor]

They don't have to. Hence why you're a little confused.

And voters also don't have to vote ANC. Yet pretty consistently they do.

As I said, I am not opposed to privatisation and it has its place if it's done properly. But if you think that *anything* can be done properly by this regime, then I'm afraid you're the one that's a little confused.

Switching business models as drastically as from a public enterprises model to a private one has been done very badly even by otherwise well-run first-world countries. I have precisely zero confidence that it will make much difference here, given our current circumstances.

 

[porchrat]

And voters also don't have to vote ANC. Yet pretty consistently they do.

In their minds they have to.

As I said, I am not opposed to privatisation and it has its place if it's done properly. But if you think that *anything* can be done properly by this regime, then I'm afraid you're the one that's a little confused.

Switching business models as drastically as from a public enterprises model to a private one has been done very badly even by otherwise well-run first-world countries. I have precisely zero confidence that it will make much difference here, given our current circumstances.

I think the less this regime has to do with electricity generation the better off the country will be.

 

[LCBXX]

The ripple-geyser-control system has been out of operation since 2007, when curiously coincides with the start of loadshedding.

 

[LazyLion]

Dude, you can't just switch off old Geysers.... Euthenasia is not legal in South Africa.
People have a right to life....
Besides I find that old people don't use a lot of electricity...

 

[LCBXX]

Dude, you can't just switch off old Geysers.... Euthenasia is not legal in South Africa.
People have a right to life....
Besides I find that old people don't use a lot of electricity...

Water too.