SA influencers and online content creators ask SARS to tax platforms before taxing them

[Jan]

SARS wants to go after people who make money on the Internet

The South African Revenue Service (SARS) recently identified social media influencers and digital content creators as a new target segment for tax compliance.

However, online content creators say SARS should prioritise taxing multi-billion-dollar tech giants before focusing on their nascent but growing sectors.

 

[quovadis]

“However, online content creators say SARS should prioritise taxing multi-billion-dollar tech giants before focusing on their nascent but growing sectors.”

Errrrkay. I’d guess multi billion dollar tech giants are probably mostly compliant… perhaps next time point the finger at the taxi industry - it’s somewhat a better deflection. Everyone should pay their taxes.

 

[Anthro]

SARS sits in the same boat as the people who say "The Hacker known as 4CHAN"

 

[Mirai]

Content creators should be like small businesses. But for those creators who fall under the tax threshold, that's probably 95% of South African ones, SARS won't get a cent. Never mind that you then have to subtract the cost of their internet, iPhone, lights and whatever computer or software and any sound clips/animations they're using. People probably with subs under 100K wouldn't qualify to make any meaningful income if that's their only gig.

 

[quovadis]

Content creators should be like small businesses. But for those creators who fall under the tax threshold, that's probably 95% of South African ones, SARS won't get a cent. Never mind that you then have to subtract the cost of their internet, iPhone, lights and whatever computer or software and any sound clips/animations they're using. People probably with subs under 100K wouldn't qualify to make any meaningful income if that's their only gig.

They can still submit a tax return like everyone else though. Tax thresholds aren’t the indicator of whether or not a tax return needs to be submitted

 

[Mirai]

They can still submit a tax return like everyone else though. Tax thresholds aren’t the indicator of whether or not a tax return needs to be submitted

Yes they can "submit their tax return", create more work for SARS, waste tax money and still pay no tax. Correct.

But single employed people under tax threshold don't have to submit returns, in that case some influencers don't have to.

Where can I find out if I must submit a tax return? | South African Government

You may not need to submit a tax return if: You earned less than R350 000 in the tax year; You received income from only one employer; You have no other sources of income (such as interest, rental, or freelance work); and You are not claiming any deductions (such as for medical expenses, travel...

www.gov.za

And let's face it, 95-99% of so called influencers out there will pay zero tax but going by your Calvinist thinking will create expenses for us.

 

[quovadis]

Yes they can "submit their tax return", create more work for SARS, waste tax money and still pay no tax. Correct.

It's mostly electronic and automated with flags for auditing.

But single employed people under tax threshold don't have to submit returns, in that case some influencers don't have to.

Those people have their income submitted to SARS on their behalf by their employers.... EMP501 reconciliation balanced against IRP5 certs.

 

[Mirai]

It's mostly electronic and automated with flags for auditing.

It all costs money, quovadis.

Those people have their income submitted to SARS on their behalf by their employers.... EMP501 reconciliation balanced against IRP5 certs.

OK quovadis. Keep wasting money.

Question for you, it's not personal. When the Group Areas act was around, did you turn a blind eye sometimes when a black or coloured person used the wrong bench or did your conscience offend and you called SAP?

 

[Swa]

“Whether you’re going on trips, or whether you’re receiving items or gifts that brands send you and you basically share information or your experience on them, you have to declare that money.”

Not how it works. You only have to declare what's under contract. If you receive something without an agreement it's a gift whether you post about it or not.

If SARS comes knocking and a creator cannot prove their business expenses, they will be liable for tax on the full market value of all non-monetary benefits received.

Great. So just turn everything you use into a business expense if you have a regular job. Somehow I think this is going to come back biting SARS.

 

[Swa]

“However, online content creators say SARS should prioritise taxing multi-billion-dollar tech giants before focusing on their nascent but growing sectors.”

Errrrkay. I’d guess multi billion dollar tech giants are probably mostly compliant… perhaps next time point the finger at the taxi industry - it’s somewhat a better deflection. Everyone should pay their taxes.

Actually big industry is very good at obfuscating and structuring so as to avoid paying tax. Sure it's supposed to be legal but is hard to audit and big companies are regularly found with a tax shortfall not out of malice but because it becomes impossible even for them to calculate the tax owed.

It's mostly electronic and automated with flags for auditing.

Those people have their income submitted to SARS on their behalf by their employers.... EMP501 reconciliation balanced against IRP5 certs.

Yes and then it's found they either fall below the income threshold or they only owe a few bucks. In most cases it's a waste of money.

 

[Mirai]

Some people have a letter of the law vs a spirit of the law mindset.

Sadly when you are governed by entities who often hate you, are themselves corrupt and inefficient, and then you have people who ignore that while pushing for letter of this corrupt law implemented by the corrupt, it becomes strange and counterproductive. Pragmatism and reason are king.

For example a country with racist laws requires equal tax to be paid by all. It's as legal as Group Areas was back in the day. Someone more reasonable would have looked the other way when GA's was violated because it was itself an immoral act. In this case collecting tax is moral but it often goes for immoral ends and let's face it, again in most cases no net tax is collected, if we want to be Calvinist here.

 

[quovadis]

It all costs money, quovadis.

All revenue collection costs money. Should they just stop and work with an honor system? I don't see an electronic return submission and all the same flagging systems being used to determine auditability costing much more. Auditing, sure but they'll have thresholds for such.

OK quovadis. Keep wasting money.

Question for you, it's not personal. When the Group Areas act was around, did you turn a blind eye sometimes when a black or coloured person used the wrong bench or did your conscience offend and you called SAP?

I gave you a factual response on why the two are different. Not sure why you have to go on a tangent now about the group areas act.

 

[Speedster]

Some people have a letter of the law vs a spirit of the law mindset.

Sadly when you are governed by entities who often hate you, are themselves corrupt and inefficient, and then you have people who ignore that while pushing for letter of this corrupt law implemented by the corrupt, it becomes strange and counterproductive. Pragmatism and reason are king.

For example a country with racist laws requires equal tax to be paid by all. It's as legal as Group Areas was back in the day. Someone more reasonable would have looked the other way when GA's was violated because it was itself an immoral act. In this case collecting tax is moral but it often goes for immoral ends and let's face it, again in most cases no net tax is collected, if we want to be Calvinist here.

You're going to have to explain your understanding of Calvinism to us here

 

[Mirai]

All revenue collection costs money. Should they just stop and work with an honor system? I don't see an electronic return submission and all the same flagging systems being used to determine auditability costing much more. Auditing, sure but they'll have thresholds for such.

If it all costs money, fix the big issues first. And then yes, successful countries are not hamstrung to penny pinch every cent.

I gave you a factual response on why the two are different. Not sure why you have to go on a tangent now about the group areas act.

I rest my case.

 

[borro]

Some people have a letter of the law vs a spirit of the law mindset.

Sadly when you are governed by entities who often hate you, are themselves corrupt and inefficient, and then you have people who ignore that while pushing for letter of this corrupt law implemented by the corrupt, it becomes strange and counterproductive. Pragmatism and reason are king.

For example a country with racist laws requires equal tax to be paid by all. It's as legal as Group Areas was back in the day. Someone more reasonable would have looked the other way when GA's was violated because it was itself an immoral act. In this case collecting tax is moral but it often goes for immoral ends and let's face it, again in most cases no net tax is collected, if we want to be Calvinist here.

It’s astonishingly terrifying

 

[theratman]

Lol ridiculous. As someone who makes some bucks in this area I pay SARS their chunk, I don't expect google to do it for me.

 

[Mirai]

You're going to have to explain your understanding of Calvinism to us here

Rigid application of law beyond the spirit of it.

What “Calvinist” Means in This Context​

When used colloquially, “Calvinist” tends to imply:

• Rigorous moral discipline
• Strict adherence to rules
• Suspicion of leniency or exceptions
• Belief that order and virtue require firmness
• Discomfort with ambiguity or discretion

 

[Mirai]

It’s astonishingly terrifying

It is. But it's fine. Because at the end the letter of the so called law matters and nothing else. In the past the same mindset gave us concentration camps and latter Group Areas act enforcement and finally now we have people losing their sh-t over some influencer who does not declare their R20K worth of makeup they get annually in 'gift' form.

Meanwhile we have such high levels of corruption, lawlessness and tax non compliance, it's crazy.

Hiring more SARS staff means hiring less SAPS and healthcare staff in practice. All to police and audit what? And no, governments are not that efficient.

 

[quovadis]

Actually big industry is very good at obfuscating and structuring so as to avoid paying tax. Sure it's supposed to be legal but is hard to audit and big companies are regularly found with a tax shortfall not out of malice but because it becomes impossible even for them to calculate the tax owed.

The point was that if you're going to point the finger about being targeted for non-compliance, billion dollar companies are perhaps not the first choice you'd go with. And by compliance, compliant with submitting returns is the minimum.

Yes and then it's found they either fall below the income threshold or they only owe a few bucks. In most cases it's a waste of money.

Again missing the point. One has no submissions to SARS and the other has submission to SARS on their behalf. The threshold is only one factor on when a tax return is indeed required.

 

[borro]

It is. But it's fine. Because at the end the letter of the so called law matters and nothing else. In the past the same mindset gave us concentration camps and latter Group Areas act enforcement and finally now we have people losing their sh-t over some influencer who does not declare their R20K worth of makeup they get annually in 'gift' form.

Meanwhile we have such high levels of corruption, lawlessness and tax non compliance, it's crazy.

Hiring more SARS staff means hiring less SAPS and healthcare staff in practice. All to police and audit what? And no, governments are not that efficient.

Yeah, the emperors are all naked.