How the chartered flight for Afrikaner refugees to the United States was approved

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Cray said:
Nope, you clearly missed the point. How am I expected to prove that a song hasn't contributed meaningfully to the violence in this country? It's problem with the question you are asking.

You are making the claim that people take the song literally and then commit violence against people because of that, cool, show me the examples of that happening.
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That raises the question, Did Eddie Grants song Joanna really give us hope ?
 
NoStepOnSnek88 said:
I'm not claiming anything, it's common sense, it's happened in the past, currently and will continue to happen
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When and where?

NoStepOnSnek88 said:
, just like some extremists drink too much of the koolaid and then carry out terrorist attacks, just like some religious nut jobs believe they're cleansing the earth, or will meet 72 virgins, or commit mass suicide because the apocalypse is upon them, or snake venom will cure them, etc etc etc...

As I said, you cannot prove that it hasn't already happened, nor can you say that it won't happen in future.
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Good because I am not saying, I am saying their is insufficient evidece to suggest that whites are being specifically targeted in terms of crime. If you can provide evidence, I might change my mind

NoStepOnSnek88 said:
I'll say this again, you are delusional if you think that there isn't a percentage of followers/ supporters that do take it literally.
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No offence mate, but I need more evidence than "Trust me bro".
 
rietrot said:
Who do you think you are?
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Is that a no? To answer your question, I am someone trying to have a conversation with the biggest troll on myBB (much against my better judgement). Who do you think you are?
 
Cray said:
When and where?
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Are we discussing the same thing ?

I've given you hundred examples of supporters / followers carrying out attacks, murders, violence because they took things literally, or was convinced of it.
Cray said:
Good because I am not saying, I am saying their is insufficient evidece to suggest that whites are being specifically targeted in terms of crime. If you can provide evidence, I might change my mind
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I'm not going to repeat myself over and over again, songs / chants etc could provoke a supporter / follower to act on it, and take the words literally, again if you don't believe that you're delusional as there are hundreds of examples throughout history, globally.

Cray said:
No offence mate, but I need more evidence than "Trust me bro".
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Again, hundred of examples globally of chants, words, songs, ancient texts, phrases, scripture etc being taken literally.
 
Cray said:
Any others, because one politician who is not part of the ruling party hardly qualifies as a history of persecution.
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Sure and that makes it okay or not bad enough in your eyes, so now show me any political party or politicians who sings or chants anything related to killing, harming or involving blacks ?
The ANC also chants/ sings their rally songs.
You asked for an example I provided you two, now where's the example for the songs / chants against blacks?
 
Sideshow Bob said:
Be careful man. ANC cadres runs this forum now and they might inform genocide squad.
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Cool story bro...
I've realised a very very very veeeeeeeery long time ago that you and a few others are 100% forum trolls, and you've got nothing meaningful or insightful to add to any topic or discussion, please carry on. :) :) :)
 
NoStepOnSnek88 said:
Sure and that makes it okay or not bad enough in your eyes, so now show me any political party or politicians who sings or chants anything related to killing, harming or involving blacks ?
The ANC also chants/ sings their rally songs.
You asked for an example I provided you two, now where's the example for the songs / chants against blacks?
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Never said it's okay, just that one politician with no real power saying stupid things doesn't equate to persecution.
 
NoStepOnSnek88 said:
Are we discussing the same thing ?

I've given you hundred examples of supporters / followers carrying out attacks, murders, violence because they took things literally, or was convinced of it.
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Post numbers?
 
Cray said:
Never said it's okay, just that one politician with no real power saying stupid things doesn't equate to persecution.
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So what are you actually saying ?
So to you it's just "stupid things", so answer this then, what would you think would happen if the songs / chants/ words were replaced with black, and it was reversed?

Are you saying it's impossible like a 0.00% chance that none of those supporters/ followers would ever act on the songs / chants/ words ?

The EFF isn't that small, it regularly fills stadiums with thousands of supporters/ followers.
 
NoStepOnSnek88 said:
Cool story bro...
I've realised a very very very veeeeeeeery long time ago that you and a few others are 100% forum trolls, and you've got nothing meaningful or insightful to add to any topic or discussion, please carry on. :) :) :)
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cool story bro, you should stick to only white ous here. Rest are skelm. You can DM me if you want to fast track refugee visa though. 30% discount for BEE disadvantaged mybb people.
 
NoStepOnSnek88 said:
So what are you actually saying ?
So to you it's just "stupid things", so answer this then, what would you think would happen if the songs / chants/ words were replaced with black, and it was reversed?

Are you saying it's impossible like a 0.00% chance that none of those supporters/ followers would ever act on the songs / chants/ words ?
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Nope, and this conversation will go a lot quicker if you don't put words in my mouth. Crazy people do crazy things, that doesn't mean that one nutter taking things literally means that every white person in SA is being persecuted.

NoStepOnSnek88 said:
The EFF isn't that small, it regularly fills stadiums with thousands of supporters/ followers.
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No talking about the song, we are going to have to agree to disagree on that, am talking about Andile.
 
Cray said:
Nope, and this conversation will go a lot quicker if you don't put words in my mouth. Crazy people do crazy things, that doesn't mean that one nutter taking things literally means that every white person in SA is being persecuted.
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I never claimed that, no one actually did, I said these songs, / chants could, like there is a very real possibility that some percentage of supporters/ followers could take it literally and act on it.

Yet there's people disputing that, and writing it off like it's no concern or issue at all.
Cray said:
No talking about the song, we are going to have to agree to disagree on that, am talking about Andile.
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Still he has thousands of followers/ supporters.
 
Cray said:
Nope, and this conversation will go a lot quicker if you don't put words in my mouth.
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I didn't put words in your mouth you said "stupid things" , like it reads of no concern at all, don't worry about it etc...

Again, so answer this then, what would you think would happen if the songs / chants/ words were replaced with black, and it was reversed?
 
Grant said:
when last did you check ?
a sa passport allows you into any country - in fact we can travel to a whole lot more countries without threat than those holding usa passports, uk passports.
not sure how your passport value system works tho
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Reading this makes it extremely hard for me to take anything else you say seriously, but I will continue trying. The South African Green Mamba is objectively one of the weakest passports in the world. When you exclude actual conflict zones and declared rogue states, it is probably the weakest of any country that claims to be a civilised democracy.

Before my wife was able to get her Dutch passport, overseas holidays were always a schlep. Needing to sometimes manage the logistics of multiple visa applications at great expense both monetarily and time-wise, just to go on holiday. When she had to spend a year in Europe as part of her postgraduate studies at a prestigious university that officially invited her, it was even more of a schlep to get the correct long stay visa in place.

Tell me again how wonderful a green mamba is?

The only time I use mine is when I travel to mostly shithole places for work, but it’s never been of much use to get you into anywhere desirable.
Grant said:
different countries all have varying visitor visa requirements
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Which almost all disappear when you have an EU passport.
Grant said:
try the same on any other passport - also without sought after qualifications, or a specific offer of employment.
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I can use my Dutch passport right now and go and live and work anywhere in Europe, whether it’s a highly skilled job that requires qualifications, or waiting tables at a pub. I can apply for any job I am qualified for in the UK, and the work permit is but a formality.

I can go and work in most of Eastern Europe and the balkans no questions asked.

If I wanted to go live like a bum in a beach hut in the Caribbean, all I need to do is pack a bag and buy a plane ticket. Likewise, if I wanted to go work for an investment bank in the Caribbean, the same applies.

An SA passport doesn’t open those doors. Stop trying to bullshit everyone. Your and my situation is nothing like the average middle class South African with no parachute.
Grant said:
no country particularly desires to issue work permits to applicants without sought after skills or qualifications.
why would they want unskilled people from another country to take employment opportunities from their very own unskilled people?
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When last were you in Europe or the UK? Or newzealand or Australia for that matter. Generations of civilisation and good living has them in a situation where they have literally run out of a labour force. This includes both skilled and unskilled labour. Walk down a street in Dublin or Paris or London or Sydney. Almost every restaurant, bar, bakery, and retail store has signs up looking for staff. Their problem is they are swamped with totally unemployable refugees who refuse to assimilate, but they still desperately need workers.
Grant said:
but let me ask you this - you came to this country from another.
you work in this country.
how is it you came in and have permission to work here - did you not have some academic qualification that paved the way, or perhaps an employment offer that eased your entry ?
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I was born here. My grandparents/great grandparents weren’t, depending which side of the family tree you look up.
Craig_ said:
Exactly, it's opportunity that these people take at the expense of their birth country. I don't mind them taking the opportunity, but they should at least be honest about it.
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What is this notion of “at the expense of their birth country”. This country is not some ancient land that anyone can trace back dozens of generations of family history to. It was a frontier state, and barring a tiny handful of exceptions, most South Africans are lucky if they can trace even 150 years of family history here (Thant counts for blacks as much as it does for whites, especially when you look south and west of the Fish River). It’s also a totally artificial country. An invention of the colonial system. It’s very hard to really have a connection to the land here.

I love this place most days. But when I go to Holland or the Ireland, I feel at home in a very different way than I do here - even though I wasn’t born there, and only experienced them for the first time as an adult. That doesn’t mean I want to live there, or that I don’t feel at home here - but I don’t have any romanticised connection to this land - it’s just a generally good place to live now, for me, in my current circumstances.
Tim_vb said:
Do you think black South Africans should also get refugee status in the US if a white south african politician starts publishing racially charged hate speech. What about gays or foreigners from rest of Africa who have subject to harassment and target of hate speech? Why are they not included in Stephen Miller's chosen people?

Sounds like you are very concerned with just one ethnic group while other groups are experiencing actual threats intimidation. I'll sit back make a cup of tea as you tell me they probably deserve it etc etc
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This is whatsboutism and hypotheticals you are talking about. Arguably, if an extremist white racist political movement gained traction, you could argue about racial persecution of blacks, but currently that isn’t the case.

The fact that black South Africans are an overwhelming majority in South Africa, yet it’s government still finds the need to protect them through statute at the expense of an ethnic and racial minority, is a present day reality. The obvious double standard in the application of hate speech laws in South Africa is also a real and present reality. On top of that you have high profile figures openly calling for violence towards minorities such as whites. These are the real and present realities. The MK parties private member bill to parliament to attempt to repeal section 235 of the constitution, is a real and current reality. (Although I don’t think MK really though that one through, considering the bulk of their support base actually also enjoys the idea of self determination, they just haven’t figured out how to do it outside the control of their King, and repealing it could have negative knock on impacts for the house of kaZwelithini, and if that starts to happen, MK might see themselves cut down to size very quickly).

The fact that blacks are more numerous than whites and therefore in shear number terms experience more crime in South Africa is irrelevant against that backdrop. The general crime and lawlessness in SA doesn’t make targeted violent attacks on minorities a non issue.

That said, I would argue that along with whites, other targeted minorities should be offered protection and refuge through this refugee program - and I believe now are, if I read the wording of the exec order. I particularly think the amashangane and Batsonga people should also be provided refugee status should they wish to apply for it under the US program. They are also both, however for very different reasons severely targeted and singled out for violent attacks by larger majority groups and often face brutal murders and attacks totally unrelated to general crime and lawlessness.
Cray said:
Very few people here want to address that little wrinkle, some peeps have hinted that black people deserve what they get in this country as they are the one voting for the ANC. :oops:
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Well, isn’t that sort of how democracy works - the people vote, and the majority get the government they deserve, while the minorities need to accept the consequences, or leave?
 
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