Concerns about R2,400 registration fee for Emfuleni residents with solar power

porchrat said:
This stuff doesn't happen in Switzerland because the average person is decently educated and contributes to their society so they've got skin in the game. Even where they do elect officials, which they still do mind you, they don't elect morons. So jobs still get done.

There are a significant number of people in SA that still believe in witchcraft. Many want your land expropriated and any number of other idiotic things. You want these people to have MORE direct control?

When you come up with ideas like this you've got yourself in mind. This sort of thing works for a person like you. You're disciplined and educated. You're not the problem. You're not the one making the bad decisions electing the morons. You need to think about the lowest common denominator though. Those same people that overwhelmingly vote in the morons will just directly vote for even dumber ideas once they have direct control.
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Yes, those people shouldn't be allowed to vote. Only after they have evolved and pass the civilised what is a country test then maybe. Voting should be a privilege, not a right. In a democracy, majority rules, so that "significant number" is 67% of the vote, so I'm not sure what you're expecting to happen when you keep voting DA. No amount of "education" will change whether they believe in witchcraft or not.
 
wingnut771 said:
Yes, those people shouldn't be allowed to vote. Only after they have evolved and pass the civilised what is a country test then maybe. Voting should be a privilege, not a right. In a democracy, majority rules, so that "significant number" is 67% of the vote, so I'm not sure what you're expecting to happen when you keep voting DA. No amount of "education" will change whether they believe in witchcraft or not.
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OK now you're entering even more dangerous territory. On what basis do you remove someone's right to vote? Who makes this decision?

Why should anyone live under a government when they have no say over who leads it?
 
porchrat said:
OK now you're entering even more dangerous territory. On what basis do you remove someone's right to vote? Who makes this decision?

Why should anyone live under a government when they have no say over who leads it?
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Lol, where do you see South Africa in 10 years time?
 
porchrat said:
OK now you're entering even more dangerous territory. On what basis do you remove someone's right to vote? Who makes this decision?

Why should anyone live under a government when they have no say over who leads it?
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I'm not the one thinking education is going to fix 67% of the population when 67% of the population is in charge of the curriculum so who's more dangerous?
 
wingnut771 said:
I'm not the one thinking education is going to fix 67% of the population when 67% of the population is in charge of the curriculum so who's more dangerous?
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Education empowers you to think for yourself. A decent education can uplift anyone. It's also something that, once you've got it, no authority can take away.
 
Afriforum to the rescue again! Hope we all paying our subs!!
 
wingnut771 said:
I dont know.
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A franchised vote isn't necessarily a bad idea. It potentially works even independent of the Swiss canton style system. It's probably more effective for something like South Africa.

It's more just I don't understand how someone could determine a standard for who gets a franchise and who doesn't. Further who could be trusted to make such a decision. A knotty issue. I'm not sure it has a workable answer. Nice to think about, but not sure how practical it is.
 
porchrat said:
A franchised vote isn't necessarily a bad idea. It potentially works even independent of the Swiss canton style system. It's probably more effective for something like South Africa.

It's more just I don't understand how someone could determine a standard for who gets a franchise and who doesn't. Further who could be trusted to make such a decision. A knotty issue. I'm not sure it has a workable answer. Nice to think about, but not sure how practical it is.
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Lets start with anyone with a SARS number and is in good standing by just checking the public register (peoples SARS status is public info) is allowed to vote. That's easy and practical.
 
wingnut771 said:
Lets start with anyone with a SARS number and is in good standing by just checking the public register (peoples SARS status is public info) is allowed to vote. That's easy and practical.
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Possibly.

Folks with disabilities that can't work? Folks that are unemployed? Pensioners below thresholds that don't pay tax? How are these handled? Do we still consider them in good standing?

This also still has the problem of being a system where people will be required to submit to a system they have no say in. I'm not sure how ethical that is.
 
porchrat said:
Possibly.

Folks with disabilities that can't work? Folks that are unemployed? Pensioners below thresholds that don't pay tax? How are these handled? Do we still consider them in good standing?

This also still has the problem of being a system where people will be required to submit to a system they have no say in. I'm not sure how ethical that is.
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I'm unemployed and have a SARS tax number in good standing. Pensioners get a "wisdom" excemption. Folks with disabilities can ride the wave of good choices made from the voters.

Hit me up for more ideas.
 
wingnut771 said:
I'm unemployed and have a SARS tax number in good standing. Pensioners get a "wisdom" excemption. Folks with disabilities can ride the wave of good choices made from the voters.

Hit me up for more ideas.
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Well said. It's an intriguing concept. I think more so than a Swiss canton style of running things, this has the potential to change South Africa for the better. Unfortunately I doubt something like this would ever be enacted.
 
porchrat said:
Well said. It's an intriguing concept. I think more so than a Swiss canton style of running things, this has the potential to change South Africa for the better. Unfortunately I doubt something like this would ever be enacted.
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Exactly, because we have a dEmOcRaCy with 67% (probably more) believing in witchcraft.
 
wingnut771 said:
Exactly, because we have a dEmOcRaCy with 67% (probably more) believing in witchcraft.
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That as a practical barrier. As an ethical barrier you've got the idea that taxation without representation is unethical, if not downright immoral.

You're asking someone to, for example, pay VAT on a purchase, fuel taxes etc. for a government with policies they have no say in. SARS is one form of taxation, but realistically there's almost nobody in this country that isn't contributing to tax revenue in some way.
 
porchrat said:
That as a practical barrier. As an ethical barrier you've got the idea that taxation without representation is unethical, if not downright immoral.

You're asking someone to, for example, pay VAT on a purchase, fuel taxes etc. for a government with policies they have no say in. SARS is one form of taxation, but realistically there's almost nobody in this country that isn't contributing to tax revenue in some way.
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I agree, ban income tax like Florida and Alaska and Monaco. Will have to find another way for sort out the franchised.
 
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